Realism, whats missing?

[BadAim]

Ok, I don't want to step on anyone's toes, but I think you guys are answering the wrong question. The question that I see (although not articulated) is this: "If I'm in a Cessna with my buddy and he has a heart attack or he passes out from some medical condition, will my experience with IL2 help me not die?"

My answer is yes, of course it will! If you have someone on the other end of the radio that can give you approach speeds and flap settings and the like, I bet you'll be just fine. I mean you know what an altimeter is and you know what flaps are, and you know which way to push the stick to make the nose go down (and up). You might very well still splat yourself all over the runway, but you'll have a hell of a lot better chance than the average schmuck (which is to say, any chance at all).

That said, keep studying Sailboat, you never know when you might need your skills..........

[Treetop64]

Put that way, absolutely. I agree.

The knowledge gained will certainly give you a better chance than the schmuck who's likely to confuse the pedals for the gas and brake.

[MaxGunz]

IL-2 simulates flight and does not have _all_ the real factors and motions but does cover the major aspects down to a number of minor effects.

But when near the ground the differences between the sim and reality get a bit farther apart. What ground-effect simulating there is only occurs over landing strips and covers what happens less well than could be desired.

Some of the planes seem to have too much lift at low speeds though it was worse in release versions of FB and Aces. At very high speeds the differences between the simulation and reality spread out more and more with increase in speed, effects of compression on props and airframe is not detailed giving a noticeable difference in results that many players have shown.

Even if you can find charts for a particular IL-2 model, matching down to the prop/engine/etc, the performance of IL-2 will have places that do not match.
You get in the real plane and expect to change speed or alt in a certain way then you could possibly get in trouble especially near to ground where IL-2 less fully covers effects and differences can lead to unwanted contact with the ground then what would your last words be?

Have a chance? Certainly. Maybe a good one. You might even learn something about wind socks IRL but you won't in IL-2.

[K_Freddie]

IL2 doesn't have this, but neither does DCS, strangely enough for a 'study sim'.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4m8fc52j0k...Turn_Smart.flv

But IL2 does model yaw stalling sooo much better than DCS - they were very upset when I told them so. DCS does seem lack a few FMs, but generally the feel is smoother than IL2 and does feel more like a real plane.

The engine startup procedures are nice in DCS and one has to be carefull with certain items as you could blow them (Engine starter).
IF TD can implement these things into IL2, DCS would take a backseat as it still lacks a lot wrt gameplay.

[T}{OR]

Interesting. I was told that IL2 over exaggerates certain effects and FM/DM, in general DCS is more difficult to fly (P-51). In my short flying experience, DCS, CloD and RoF feel much closer to what I experienced when flying a Cessna.

Never yaw stalled in my virtual sim life, guess I'll have to try it some time.

[K_Freddie]

Sorry.. meant with a bit of elevator input + full yaw.

Using a P51 in IL2 and DCS.. I tried to snap roll it using full elevator and rudder with no aerolons. Engine was on idle to minimize torque and propwash.

1) The IL2 replied with immediate wing stall and roll
2) The DCS P51 made an attempt to yaw and nose up.. and refused to do anything. It hung there wobbling, as if in a software loop that was going nowhere. They went off their rockers when I pointed this out....

Having found that great instructional video that I've posted, I set up both aircraft turning with full yaw and slight cross controls, so as to keep it just on the stall zone. I then applied full aerolon which should have induced a stall.

DCS again did nothing and rolled in the direction of application, still refusing to stall when I applied complete cross controls.
IL2 also did not respond fully but did wobble a bit... and was much slower to roll over - but effectively showed that this FM wasn't modeled that much.

[T}{OR]

Do you have a thread about this over at ED forums? If so, I'd like to see it.

At what speed and altitude were you doing this maneuver, and what fuel/weapon loadout (presumably empty). I'd like to try and replicate this in both IL2 and DCS.

[vpmedia]

A while ago the french Histomod team was working on realistic operating procedures for the 109's and other aircraft.

http://vk.com/video-4113931_163109128

[Buster_Dee]

Funny story. A friend was a P51 candidate in WW2 attending one of those experimental, abbreviated programs (don't recall which). He said several students never got past taxiing, crashing and burning to death instead (so, yes, torque, etc was brutal). He was relieved when the USAAF decided it could make enough pilots without this school, and closed it. He then became a combat engineer, and made one of the follow-up landings on D-Day. He still considered himself luckier than being in half-baked pilot training. Several years after his service, the Army grilled him for turning in a different serial-numbered weapon than he was issued. He wrote back that he had misplaced his in the surf while "distracted" on D-Day and, having found a trooper who could no longer use his, borrowed it. The Army returned an apology and thanked him for his service.

I knew him from work. The Military had contracted a P-51 to show their pilots "how badly" an aircraft can fly (they were spoiled by newer hardware). I can tell a Merlin from a long way off. Whenever that P51 was visiting, I would rush outside. Not once did I beat my friend to the parking lot--even though he was in his 70s at the time. We would stand together quietly until the a/c departed the area. He had no faith in his particular training, but he loved that airplane.

[Buster_Dee]

Sorry. Back to the topic. I will say this: sims can definitely work against real flight. I once hit the wrong rudder on landing roll-out because the twist grip rudder on my joystick had planted an opposite body movement in my head. My instructor knew the cause immediately and said "I want you to stop flying your simulator until you've finished training."

I bought rudder pedals instead.