4.12 development update discussion and feedback

[Spudkopf]

To me the footage is quite inconclusive in regards to determining if the gear dropping is due to damage or as a deliberate act by the pilot (like a sign of surrender), the fact that the pilot does not seem to take any evasive action at all just raises far too many questions as to the true circumstances of whats actually happening here. Further you can only see the starboard wing at the moment the gear begins to drop so it is also unclear what is happening on the port wing.

I'm not in any way disputing the possibility or non-possibility of a gear failure drop and do not have an opinion either way, but I do have to question the validity of the video evidence presented.

[ElAurens]

Originally Posted by Spudkopf

a deliberate act by the pilot (like a sign of surrender),

Um, that was not a clip from a video game. It's war, no real combat pilot would take the gear comming down to have any meaning other than system failure due to damage.

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

I've once seen a different vid, showing a hit Fw190 extending its one gear. Dunno where to find though.

[Treetop64]

Originally Posted by Spudkopf

...a deliberate act by the pilot (like a sign of surrender)...

...In a naive, fairy tale world.

In the video, it is the real world, in a real war. The pilot doing the shooting doesn't have time to assume that the gear dropping is a sign of surrender. His job is to destroy the aircraft, and he sees signs of that occurring.

What if he thought "Oh, his gear is dropping. That means he surrenders. I'll leave him be now.", only to end up being shot at by the guy he just left alone after he had a change of heart. Kinda silly.

On the other hand, fighter vs. bomber situations over western Europe could sometimes play out differently, as there have been documented cases fighter pilots escorting badly damaged enemy bombers home, though that occurred very seldom.

Originally Posted by Spudkopf

...the fact that the pilot does not seem to take any evasive action at all just raises far too many questions as to the true circumstances of whats actually happening here.

Yes, it does raise questions. The pilot could already be wounded and unable to maneuver. He could have panicked and "froze". Maybe it's a novice pilot and he has no idea what to do. Maybe he's just given up to the apparently inevitable.

However, what is obvious is that a pilot in his aircraft is being shot down. No reason to imply that something else is going on here. It's war, and it's hell.

Originally Posted by Spudkopf

Further you can only see the starboard wing at the moment the gear begins to drop so it is also unclear what is happening on the port wing.

So, what?

Originally Posted by Spudkopf

I'm not in any way disputing the possibility or non-possibility of a gear failure drop and do not have an opinion either way, but I do have to question the validity of the video evidence presented.

Well, you're certainly free to do so. No real reason to bring the video footage to the fringes of conspiracy theory, however. It's fairly straight-forward.

[Spudkopf]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

Um, that was not a clip from a video game. It's war, no real combat pilot would take the gear comming down to have any meaning other than system failure due to damage.

No need to treat me like I'm some three year old Hollywood inspired moron........I'll admit the surrender thing is probably fantasy and a wrong call, but there are numerous documented accounts of the dropping of gear including by mistake.

That aside my point is that as evidence, this clip on its own is next to useless without some knowledge as to the circumstances in which it was taken so unless there is an after action report or other data available or unless you are an expert in such things, then the only two people who really knew what happened in that clip are the pilots.

Sorry to be so negative.

Again I have no issues with the possibility that the gear could drop on the Fw-190 as a result of battle damage, just the assumptions made about this particular clip.

[DuxCorvan]

Maybe... he realized he was near the ground and released the gear for a desperate landing (stupid, but who knows what we'd do in a panic)... Too many assumptions, we really don't know what was happening in there.

[Cloyd]

It's time for the patch when respected, long time members of this community are sniping at each other about stupid sh!t. GIVE US A PATCH TO WHINE ABOUT!!!



Cloyd

[Spinnetti]

Originally Posted by CWMV

At same mod site, and in same mod thread, I posted this video of an Anton getting shot up, and showing the gear dropping.

I don't recall you responding there but please, just stop.

So you've taken it upon yourself to curate the internet now? I have owned a replica FW190, and studied the systems extensively. My particular interest is in landing gear design and I make working (flyable) miniature replica gear also. I have a good working understanding of both electrical and hydraulic systems, text books on gear design etc, and your comments mean nothing to me, nor does your video prove any poorly reasoned explanation you may have. If the FW system to a catastrophic hit in the gear retract motor it would drop like a rock, not motor down. Your video proves nothing other than that that gear was lowering under power. The system uses a highly geared motor that will not drop down with or without the gear uplock being functional. At worst it would just sag an inch or so taking up any gear lash in the mechanism. This is quite unlike virtually any other WWII aircraft, and it would be neat to see it modeled in accordance to the actual function. You are welcome to disagree, but it doesn't make your comments valid, nor does it invalidate my desire to see this unique function modeled.

[felix_the_fat]

regarding possible reasons for gear drops:
Johnnie Johnson ["Wing Leader" Penguin edn 1959 p301] wrote this about some 190s in the act of surrendering to some Spitfires:
"The Huns waggled their wings, dropped their undercarriages, and generally behaved in a nervous manner..."

As he described it, this happened in the last few days of the war.

[majorfailure]

Originally Posted by CWMV

At same mod site, and in same mod thread, I posted this video of an Anton getting shot up, and showing the gear dropping.
I don't recall you responding there but please, just stop.

I don't think the gear drops due to damage - I think the Fw190 pilot is on a landing approach. Would explain the lack of reaction to beeing fired upon.

And on the ground in the distance, ther are some white specs that COULD be parked planes. They could be anything else that is light coloured and of roughly 10-50m size though (BIG white elephants)...

And the speeds the planes have seem to be slow, based on the wobbling both planes do.
And if the video speed is realtime, then they seem to travel slow, but without knowing for sure and by "eyeball measure" that's rather guesswork.