F4U Takeoff problem

[The Stalker]

*Update.

I managed to take off with F4U-D variant, barely. Lowering fuel amount also helps with F4U-A. Still it seems strange I'm having so much trouble taking off the F4U-A with a full tank without ordnance.

Any thoughts?

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

I can take off with F4U-A with 100% fuel as well. Its close, but also AI cannot make it better. Didn't check your track, but did you use mixture 120%?

But indeed the CVEs are a bit short. Maybe we should change it.
Not sure, if Corsairs ever started on light carriers...

[The Stalker]

Thanks for the reply. In the training mission, the AI from the other carrier takes off but seems to be as close as half a meter from water at one point. I simply cannot hold the stick so perfectly still.

If someone has the time, please attach .trk of your take off in training mission "carrier take off 1" for the F4U-A with 100% fuel.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar

I can take off with F4U-A with 100% fuel as well. Its close, but also AI cannot make it better. Didn't check your track, but did you use mixture 120%?

But indeed the CVEs are a bit short. Maybe we should change it.
Not sure, if Corsairs ever started on light carriers...

They didn't. Only Wildcats and Avengers operated from CVE's in any quantity. It's not possible to take off from a stationary CVE with a Corsair. I haven't tried with 10% fuel but even then I doubt it.

Probably should be changed... I can do that!

[sniperton]

Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar

I can take off with F4U-A with 100% fuel as well. Its close, but also AI cannot make it better. Didn't check your track, but did you use mixture 120%?

I envy you Caspar. I can do it myself, but with rather strange trim settings:

Aileron 6-8 notches right
Rudder 6-8 notches right
Elevator 25-30 notches up (!)

This way it flyes off from itself, and only minimal stick input is needed after takeoff, but still it's a bit odd historically.

[horseback]

During the war, Corsairs, Hellcats, even Spitfires, P-40s and P-47s were all flown off of CVE type carriers with full combat loads by average service pilots on several occasions without the aid of catapults. Taking off wasn't the problem; landing on a shorter, slower, more unstable CVE deck was a distinct problem.

By every account, the Wildcat was one of the hardest aircraft to take off from a carrier--the F4F-4 and FM-1 models were especially somewhat underpowered, and the darned things were so torque-y on top of those narrow landing gear that almost anything after that must have seemed like a piece of cake by comparison. Certainly, the late-war carrier fighters should have more than enough power and lift to clear even a short carrier deck easily with a normal combat load.

I think that there's either something 'off' in the acceleration & takeoff modeling or that the 'correct' procedure for the Player to achieve the desired results is not well known or understood.

cheers

horseback

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by horseback

During the war, Corsairs, Hellcats, even Spitfires, P-40s and P-47s were all flown off of CVE type carriers with full combat loads by average service pilots on several occasions without the aid of catapults. Taking off wasn't the problem; landing on a shorter, slower, more unstable CVE deck was a distinct problem.

By every account, the Wildcat was one of the hardest aircraft to take off from a carrier--the F4F-4 and FM-1 models were especially somewhat underpowered, and the darned things were so torque-y on top of those narrow landing gear that almost anything after that must have seemed like a piece of cake by comparison. Certainly, the late-war carrier fighters should have more than enough power and lift to clear even a short carrier deck easily with a normal combat load.

I think that there's either something 'off' in the acceleration & takeoff modeling or that the 'correct' procedure for the Player to achieve the desired results is not well known or understood.

cheers

horseback

If I'm not mistaken, those were all much larger than the one class of CVE that we have from Pacific Fighters.

The Wildcat may have been a bit of a handful but it was still the aircraft of choice for these tiny pocket carriers. At the battle of Leyte Gulf it was a few Wildcats and Avengers from the CVE's of Taffy 3 that held back a much larger force. There was no Hellcat or Corsair employed from these carriers.

[The Stalker]

I don't think F4U-s ever took off from CVE as it seems the corsair is much too heavy for such a short deck. I may not a best pilot tactically, but I know how to make smooth maneuvers with the plane, and it isn't helping.

The best I got with the 1A model is takeoff with 70% fuel. But I can take off from a moving carrier with the 1D every time without a hitch as its a bit more powerful.

[IceFire]

If any Corsairs launched from a CVE it would have been one of the larger ones for sure...

I'll modify the training missions and submit to TD for approval. Those missions were setup with, I think anyways, very little understanding of Pacific flight ops, and certainly CVE's wouldn't be used for Corsair flight training...

[horseback]

Originally Posted by IceFire

If I'm not mistaken, those were all much larger than the one class of CVE that we have from Pacific Fighters.

The Wildcat may have been a bit of a handful but it was still the aircraft of choice for these tiny pocket carriers. At the battle of Leyte Gulf it was a few Wildcats and Avengers from the CVE's of Taffy 3 that held back a much larger force. There was no Hellcat or Corsair employed from these carriers.

Well, let's start with a comparison to the TBF, which usually operated off those CVEs with the Wildcat; powered by an R-2600 generating about 1,900 horses vs the 2,000+ hp R-2800 which powered the Corsair and Hellcat. The Avenger's empty weight is 2,000 lbs heavier than the Corsair's, and it was usually heavily loaded with fuel and bombs, rockets or torpedoes on takeoff. A fully internally laden Avenger carried about 16,500 lbs with a wing area of 490 square ft; a loaded clean Corsair weighed in at 10,500 lbs with a wing area of 314 square ft, which works out to less than one pound (less than .5 kg) difference in weight per square foot of wing area with an extra 5-10% of takeoff power

I think that we should also remember that CVEs were the primary means of supplying replacement aircraft to deployed carrier task groups in the last 18 months or so of the Pacific war; they routinely flew replacement Corsairs, Hellcats, Helldivers and Avengers from the jeep carriers to the fast big carriers when the big boys started running short of aircraft before their combat tour was over. It was (and is still) actually far easier to take off from a smaller deck than it was to land.

They put Wildcats on those little carriers for two reasons: they could more safely land on those smaller decks and they took up less space while still capable of performing the necessary light CAP, escort and ground attack functions, not because they could take off from them more easily.

cheers

horseback