4.12 open testing

[bitterman]

I must consider, that your words make me feel in a bad way. Very bad way.

So, tell me, please, what the heck is "a patch leaking"? Leaking to where? Leaking to whom? To all of the people, that DT used to call "Dear Il-2 fans" in their own posts? To the people who love them? To the people who trust them and are waiting with trepidation for the new improvements? Leaking without any financial and confidential lost? This is ridiculous! If it is not, then what is the sence of all of this? What is the sence of this forum? What is the sence of the wish lists, discussions and bug reports when most of them are just ignored or implemented in a terrific way and presented to us packed in the snots of sobbing about "oh, gods, we've got so much work to do and so little time to implement it"? Damn it! I know very well how it's hard to maintain big projects using only personal free time. From this point of view I'm giving my deep respect to all of the people who have ever contributed to this game. But at the same time I should say that current DT team shows us their unprofessional behaviour of software developers. We do not need a heap of promises about how good it will be a bit later and how much they need to do now. Sometimes it sounds to me like a promises about life after death. Such a wrong approach. Do less. But do it now. Do it with a high level of quality. Do it on time. Ask for help. Nobobe will die from this. Appreciate and accept the help of your fans. You are doing the work for them. But the words

Having the community partially upgrade to a buggy beta-version is in no-one's interest, so it's a good idea to keep the testing circle reasonably small.

look selfish and cynical. May be it's a good idea to left this reasonably small testing circle playing in their sandbox alone? Sorry, if there are rude words, but the situation exactly looks like that. Let's be realists.

[Fenrir]

Bitterman, you're well off track in my opinion; there's nothing ridiculous about having a small core of reliable and trusted testers to beta test.

Their way means testing among a limited but cosmopolitan range of setups - feedback is more managable in the event of the more prevalent & serious bugs and allows quicker analysis.

It also avoids the hysteria and drama-queen-itis - and there's already more than required of that, much emanating from your direction I might add - that seems to effect the public response towards bugs in a general release version. Also previous massed beta-released have caused some confusion and compatability issues which don't help matters much.

I suggest you dial back on your sense of indignant entitlement; there's a lot of passionate people here eagerly awaiting the patch and it's new features, you certainly aren't the only one keen to get your hands on it.

As for JTDs post being selfish and cynical... ? We're clearly on VERY different wavelengths, cos to my eyes, what he said was neither opinion or conjecture - just fact.

[bitterman]

ok. I see. I haven't played il-2 for a long-long time, so i said not only about my self. it's a common opinion in the big parts of the eastern community (commonly non-english speaking, as you might guess). just fact. thanks for clarity.

[AnpeJIb_23]

Dear pilots, many thanks for your thoughts and comments. However, the question is addressed directly to DT, and we would llike to hear an official response.

With respect AnpeJIb, representative of KG200.

1. 159BAG
2. GOVP
3. SG2
4. AxA
5. RR
6. IronSky
7. ES
8. Trd
9. KG200
10. KG26
11. aviachamp.ru

[TelluricSummer]

I think this time they will do more to integrate with other work in progress ... as SAS team.
This might be interesting since the communities paid and professional development are joining ...
let's see!
and good luck!

[TheGrunch]

I would suggest that the reason development teams often don't go to open testing is that it is not really very valuable for game development, because being a player is not being a tester:

• Most players do not test bugs in a methodical manner
• Most players do not provide bug reports in a structured manner
• Many players do not understand what an "alpha" or "beta" version is and are quite happy to write huge rant-posts about the beta version they just downloaded because their friend told them to
• Or in our context, about how DT have porked their favourite ride deliberately

As a result, even confirming bug reports takes far more time than with dedicated testers because players will not necessarily check basic facts such as whether they can reproduce a bug, or even note down the specific conditions in which they experienced a bug. It's not really worth it just to satisfy players' desire to get a new version early.

[bitterman]

As I have said, it's a wrong approach. Thing shouldn't be done in a such way. Let's look for example at linux kernel. zillions of users use it. thousands of developers contribute to it every day or so. there's a new patch release coming out every week or two and there's a new minor release coming out in several month. and everyone is ok and pleased. so, this is quite possible. and this is the only one example. how it is happening? it's just opensource project. popular opensource projects are developing fast and evetyone can be heared: want to see something new? want to fix some bug? you can do it? then just do it and show to everyone what you've done and it will be accepted if it's really worth it. But 1C do not allow to make il-2 opensourced, although they do not get any money from the target audience. They are just leaving this project rotting from within while they are making money on other projects. and yes, this is selfish and cynical a bit. maybe i'm wrong, but i do not know how to name it in other words. Nevertheless, there is no question in this post. just another fact

[Treetop64]

Originally Posted by bitterman

I must consider, that your words make me feel in a bad way. Very bad way.

So, tell me, please, what the heck is "a patch leaking"? Leaking to where? Leaking to whom? To all of the people, that DT used to call "Dear Il-2 fans" in their own posts? To the people who love them? To the people who trust them and are waiting with trepidation for the new improvements? Leaking without any financial and confidential lost? This is ridiculous! If it is not, then what is the sence of all of this? What is the sence of this forum? What is the sence of the wish lists, discussions and bug reports when most of them are just ignored or implemented in a terrific way and presented to us packed in the snots of sobbing about "oh, gods, we've got so much work to do and so little time to implement it"? Damn it! I know very well how it's hard to maintain big projects using only personal free time. From this point of view I'm giving my deep respect to all of the people who have ever contributed to this game. But at the same time I should say that current DT team shows us their unprofessional behaviour of software developers. We do not need a heap of promises about how good it will be a bit later and how much they need to do now. Sometimes it sounds to me like a promises about life after death. Such a wrong approach. Do less. But do it now. Do it with a high level of quality. Do it on time. Ask for help. Nobobe will die from this. Appreciate and accept the help of your fans. You are doing the work for them. But the words

look selfish and cynical. May be it's a good idea to left this reasonably small testing circle playing in their sandbox alone? Sorry, if there are rude words, but the situation exactly looks like that. Let's be realists.

To say that this dramatically skids off the point is an understatement.

There is really no need to take it personally that DT chooses to conduct testing the way they do. It's been like this for years, and it's apparently worked well.

[DuxCorvan]

To me, it looks like some people are impatient to try the pie before it's ready.... Hands off the food, kids. You gonna have to wait until we are all at the table.

[bitterman]

Please, dont call people you dont know "kids". some of them are over 50 y.o. I can see there's a thin red line comming through some posts and wiring up the thought that some people just want see things to happen faster. But indeed they just want to see things to happen better and offer their responsible and scrupulous staff. It's a pity that you see only consumption purposes. do not measure another's foot by your own last