War Thunder.... After some time.

[Lexicon]

Originally Posted by naz

Clod boring to play after a few months??

Can't agree with you there old boy....each to their own I guess but you are definitely speaking for yourself there.

Are'nt we all speaking for ourselves here ?

And you call me old boy !!! You know what Naz ?!!!!
You're right about that one !

I have to admit that I am more of a "visual" and "immersion" guy than an expert in FM/DM and technical specs of each airplane. But there is no concensus about those issues in CLOD either...

SAlute !

[Roblex]

What impresses me is that this was using am ATI HD 4850 which has only 1GB and is over 4 years old!

[Stublerone]

Wt is already boring after weeks for many and it simply will never have the possibility to create content near the possibilities of il2 and clod. And il2 is an old sim, still capable of more features than wt would ever have. Random battles are boring and do not suite to a flight sim.

With "intention" I mean the intention, why it complicatedly built. Sure it had bucks and performqnce problems, bit I see the technical aspects behind it. You can screw down the whole graphics to 800x6000 and it still is technically better than wt. I do not want to argue, but you are seeing skins, textures and anti aliasing, but not the number of polygons, the calculations etc behind it. With all that limited in wt, the game should look like gran turismo or R.A.C.E. and not like it is now. It looks okay but they are far beyond the possibilities.

Btw: I could play clod sufficiently directly after the first small patch a few days after release. I just had to take away some eye candies, which are not that much relevant. I mean: Why set number of houses on max, if it looks okay enough on low settings and it has no influence on your flying.

The only thing about clod is, that they haven't looked into the old comunity and give their feedback enough value. The game is built like wt: you cannot establish a core gaming comunity with that limited access to a good mission builder and some other stuff. And the second topic on clod was, that they wanted too much and did not have the proper skills to make such a complicated thing ready to run. I also never understood, why the fm's were so weird.

But that is all. Technically our next pc will be able to run clod in its first released state easily. The engine requires too much from a system "pc" which nobody cares of in the direction of game requirements. We simply need better comunications between the parts of a pc and we are already lost years of innovation in this case, because the consoles stopped it. If you see recent analyses, it could be the best solution for the new console generation to go closer to pc configuration again, as 4k resolution on a crappy ps4 with a amd a10 chip inside is nonsens. They will lose shares soon, if you hear the technical analysts.

Bit that is a bit off topic

[Stublerone]

Originally Posted by Roblex

What impresses me is that this was using am ATI HD 4850 which has only 1GB and is over 4 years old!

That is totally easy: You take your old experience with the il2 engine, create new interiors, new layers and totally limit the workload on physics and other calculations or replace it with easier to calculate rudimentary calculations and you have enough headroom for eyecandy and so on. Additionally screw down visibility from other ganes down from 35km to 5km or less and guess what: You have a game running on every system! They already built a ps2 game out of il2 and a console also only can do limited workloads.

I am just wondering, why it do not look like bf3, because with all these limitations, it should easily work! So for me they are now beginning to make money with a polished ps2game in the jacket of the new free to play mmo's. And additionally they could use the old mechanics to let you build missions and play "full real". This was also what they bought with the rights to built a ps2 il2. Poorly they slow everything out, which is important as sim and made it arcade. Sure they do, because the group of people playing arcade is much more big and they can make a lot of money! And they do by far better than world of warplanes from wargaming.

But nevertheless there is no need to discuss this game as substitute for a flight sim player. Simple as that! And immersion through visible effects are not, what a sim stands for. And immersion in sims is created by your own and the others, who are flying in clan flight evenings (organized and not just an online server gang bang. I mean real meetings with companies, where 3vs3clans with fighter and bomber specialists are flying against each others. With real organized swarm tacticts, your wingman and all the skills needed to perform such flights! That is, what il2 was all about for most players.

No online gang bang, no offline flyers, etc. Just the organized clans playing high end and building the living part of the comunity.

[Ataros]

I think WT is a fun game if you do not expect highest detail, hardcore simulation or Oleg's perfectionism.

Do you play on a Russian server or there is a separate EU or US server? The RU server has a 3rd game mode with more realistic settings(e.g. limited friendly icons only) than Arcade and Historic Battles.

[Stublerone]

Arcade, historical and full real. Only downloaded and flew one arcade match and one time on full real.

It is intended to be a fun game. That is, why it is totally unnecessary to compare it to any simulation. Some simulation guys do not seem to love the word "simulation", because they are advertising an arcade game in a forum, where many experienced people talk about simulation and not abou arcade games. This should be posted in the 1c wings of prey section.

I cannot hear it anymore. Wt is an arcade game with no ambitions to be even close to simulation. It is a world of tanks like game, where they will try to give the vehicles their known strengths, bit additionally will try to balance it for fighting 1vs1.

But we are talking in the clod forum and clod is a sim. And sims cannot be compared to arcade games. This should not be difficult to understand. All those, who are now advertising wt here were never really into simulations or they simply do not care anymore. But stop comparing them. The engine if a simulator is at least 10 times more complicated. Graphics can be already done by unemployed 400 eur jobbers. Sure this is a bit to much, but I hate hearing people with no knowledge on anything concerning gaming engines talk about them and asking themselves: why can they do high fps in wt, but not in clod? They simply should not talk anymore until they know about it.

I call these guys the "aa-lovers". As soon as a game do not have aa, they are angry about it.
Solution on that: buy yourself a sufficient monitor and not all these 1080p crap. You do not need much aa on a 4k monitor with a goid scaled game. It simply has nearly double as much pixels. I wonder, why we went steps backwards with displays anyways! I had more res 10years ago (not depending how we usedto play the games). I do not need aa with my dell ultrasharp!

[Slipstream2012]

Originally Posted by Stublerone

Arcade, historical and full real. Only downloaded and flew one arcade match and one time on full real.

It is intended to be a fun game. That is, why it is totally unnecessary to compare it to any simulation. Some simulation guys do not seem to love the word "simulation", because they are advertising an arcade game in a forum, where many experienced people talk about simulation and not abou arcade games. This should be posted in the 1c wings of prey section.

I cannot hear it anymore. Wt is an arcade game with no ambitions to be even close to simulation. It is a world of tanks like game, where they will try to give the vehicles their known strengths, bit additionally will try to balance it for fighting 1vs1.

But we are talking in the clod forum and clod is a sim. And sims cannot be compared to arcade games. This should not be difficult to understand. All those, who are now advertising wt here were never really into simulations or they simply do not care anymore. But stop comparing them. The engine if a simulator is at least 10 times more complicated. Graphics can be already done by unemployed 400 eur jobbers. Sure this is a bit to much, but I hate hearing people with no knowledge on anything concerning gaming engines talk about them and asking themselves: why can they do high fps in wt, but not in clod? They simply should not talk anymore until they know about it.

I call these guys the "aa-lovers". As soon as a game do not have aa, they are angry about it.
Solution on that: buy yourself a sufficient monitor and not all these 1080p crap. You do not need much aa on a 4k monitor with a goid scaled game. It simply has nearly double as much pixels. I wonder, why we went steps backwards with displays anyways! I had more res 10years ago (not depending how we usedto play the games). I do not need aa with my dell ultrasharp!

Nicely said Stublerone,

[jamesdietz]

Originally Posted by Richie

Well....

After some time going at this game..the demo all I can say is it's a pain in the arss. It's beautiful the flight models aren't terrible but guess what..all I've been able to fly is German biplanes. I think they give you more if you fly for hours on end and score many kills but I can't do that! Or you can buy more aeroplanes. I think I'm so use to IL-2 that anything else that is different seems garbage or totally confusing to my pea sized brain. That's probably the main problem. The only other sim that comes close to IL-2 in my opinion is Rise Of Flight witch is good for all of us. The only thing is I'm not a WWI guy.

Agree with your review...except I really do think RoF is pretty cool!

[Lexicon]

Originally Posted by Stublerone

Wt is already boring after weeks for many and it simply will never have the possibility to create content near the possibilities of il2 and clod. And il2 is an old sim, still capable of more features than wt would ever have. Random battles are boring and do not suite to a flight sim.

With "intention" I mean the intention, why it complicatedly built. Sure it had bucks and performqnce problems, bit I see the technical aspects behind it. You can screw down the whole graphics to 800x6000 and it still is technically better than wt. I do not want to argue, but you are seeing skins, textures and anti aliasing, but not the number of polygons, the calculations etc behind it. With all that limited in wt, the game should look like gran turismo or R.A.C.E. and not like it is now. It looks okay but they are far beyond the possibilities.

Btw: I could play clod sufficiently directly after the first small patch a few days after release. I just had to take away some eye candies, which are not that much relevant. I mean: Why set number of houses on max, if it looks okay enough on low settings and it has no influence on your flying.

The only thing about clod is, that they haven't looked into the old comunity and give their feedback enough value. The game is built like wt: you cannot establish a core gaming comunity with that limited access to a good mission builder and some other stuff. And the second topic on clod was, that they wanted too much and did not have the proper skills to make such a complicated thing ready to run. I also never understood, why the fm's were so weird.

But that is all. Technically our next pc will be able to run clod in its first released state easily. The engine requires too much from a system "pc" which nobody cares of in the direction of game requirements. We simply need better comunications between the parts of a pc and we are already lost years of innovation in this case, because the consoles stopped it. If you see recent analyses, it could be the best solution for the new console generation to go closer to pc configuration again, as 4k resolution on a crappy ps4 with a amd a10 chip inside is nonsens. They will lose shares soon, if you hear the technical analysts.

Bit that is a bit off topic

Hi Stublerone,

Be sure I am not here to argue, but to understand something.

What features are you reffering to when you state:

" And il2 is an old sim, still capable of more features than wt would ever have. "

I've been playing IL2 since 2001. I've been following the forums since then.
FM and DM features have always been an issue among hardcore simmers and no concensus has ever been reached. Same for CLOD.

But ,the main complaints from hardcore simmers regarding CLOD, even during its development were related to...graphics!!! How the damn thing looked !

1-Terrain...Remember all the discussions about: the color, the tone, the good green, the bad green...Bad lighting...Good lighting..?
2-Clouds...That is a pitty..But remember all those discussions and complaints about the shape ,the color and shading ? Overcast anyone ?
3-Tracers...about 25 threads of complaints about those too.
4-Buildings...Same thing...Bad color, bad size...
5-Trees...well, there were discussions about the size and green tones of the leaves...And the shimmering shadows ?
6-And all the complaints about the everchanging hue and contrast with the whole thing...including the cockpits...
7- And the "dots" plane in a distance...
8- And the blackout f/x that looks like scratches on the screen...?
There are so many complaints about the graphic aspects of CLOD in this comunity that I can't beleive it is not a priority for the simmers.

When 777 opened its forum for the IL2 BOS, about 90% of the questions were about ? The graphics !!! Will it look good ? CLOD crowd don't like the ROF graphics ! They want eye candy !

WT decided to go the other way around. Top graphics with high FPS on average machines and high playability. Now people complain about FM, DM and other "game" features that CLOD may have done right.
WT is based on IL2 engine. That means there is the possibility to make WT as good as IL2 ...If they wish to. BUt WT "works" very well, in its BETA state.
CLOD never succeeded in that matter, and was a catastrophic failure at release. Maybe Gaijin did learn from 1C ?

Salute !

[Stublerone]

Generally you are right with your comment, that they complain graphics so often. I know, that the people of clod are not the same, that are well known in il2. Most guys simply never came to clod, because it do not generate what they all wanted. My known clans all not complain about graphics and also not complain fm. They mainly complain, that cannot fly together in that game in a manner, how you did it in il2. And all we wanted is simple: Polish and advance il2 and its mechanics, regularly fill it with planes and give us a really powerful tool like an advanced SEOW.

Without a tool like that and a powerfull mission builder, clod was dead for most of the il2 guys as they want to play with a story and dynamic theaters. Not only historically correct, but with balanced planesets or with historically correct plabesets, but with resources advantages, etc...

It was dead for all people I know, not because of bad graphics, but with no sense for what a real jagdgeschwader/squadron needs to perform correct flying with immersion.

My immersion is in the things, that are briefed ir in my own mind and never graphically depending.

The engine is powerful, but you cannot fully access them to create a theatre for months. Dynamic campaigns and some sort of SEOW powers are the major backbreaker for my clans and all the people I know. Like ne, they flew perhaps 10-20 hours in clod. And performqnce issues aside, we had no fun to play on an online server, as generally you see perhaps 2-3 squadrobs really playibg it right. The rest is just meeting and shooting. No tactics, no squadron flight techniques, nothing... So: no fun!