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  #131  
Old 10-12-2012, 04:40 PM
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ElAurens ElAurens is offline
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gaunt1, are you talking online or offline?
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  #132  
Old 10-12-2012, 05:00 PM
gaunt1 gaunt1 is offline
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About the test vs. La-7? Of course online. Human vs. human.
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  #133  
Old 10-12-2012, 08:12 PM
1984 1984 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
La-5 is maybe overmodelled
well, la-5FN and 7 in game it's strange mix of good and bad and we just can't say what it's etalon/prototype... so, it's or very good planes for mid'43 and early'44, accordingly, or normal planes for late'43-44 and for late'44 (and we not have la-5f and fn'44 with metal spars = minus 70-80 kg, if i not wrong)...

la-5 and la-5f have correct performance, but have some errors here, and we can't say what it's really good planes...

and we not have first series of la-5 (only 3d model)...

Quote:
However it needs to be taken in account from which series is the aircraft. Early La-5s might be inferior to later La-5s and the same goes for F and FN, there were big differences in performance as quality of production and materials improved.
yes, it's what i saying here too, but not all understand this...

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Russian aircraft are not too popular sadly despite the focus of the sim
i think, for russian planes don't need "love" of all, it's free choice of players, but to russian planes needed NORMAL attitudes of not russian players (unfortunately, and of some russian society's too)...

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Regarding other russian aircraft - we have more spitfire models than Il-2 models while the sim bears the name Il-2.
oh... now check it - 7 il-2 and 1 il-10, but 22 spitfires and 2 seafires, and it's only some 5-8-9...

8 vs 24...

"spitfire 1946"... well...

Quote:
I've also proposed several times that a simple adition of full metal late Il-2 type 3 could be at least included in the sim and would make valuable adition.
it's to be good, yes, and i can add here "easy to do" il-2 one-seater with am-38f, il-2 two-seater with shvaks and il-2KR (and other weapon loads, of course)...

well, lets see...
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  #134  
Old 10-12-2012, 10:39 PM
1984 1984 is offline
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Originally Posted by Pursuivant View Post
A possibly simpler option would to create a "production version" loadout option. It would add mass and/or drag to the FM like a weapon or drop tank, but couldn't be jettisoned. That would be a nice method of simulating things like poor production quality or engine compression.
it's and other things something like this, long practiced on some online servers...


here we talk about real changes for game, i think, and if personally for me - or how was, or not - i DON'T want, any really far-fetched balance and "lie" in game, like in your post and like NOW in game...

and i think, this not SO hard, but need more time sometimes (about lot of "easy to do" planes start think, many time ago, some peoples, who was first - i'm not pioneer here)...


Quote:
I wonder if the most diplomatic way to resolve the issue wouldn't be to have different FM and DM models for production vs. test versions of certain aircraft.
ALL was invented instead of us... for example, pls, read this -

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В 1943 г. на новосибирском заводе были проведены контрольные испытания 13 самолетов Як-7Б М-105ПФ.

По результатам испытаний этих самолетов получены следующие данные:

1. Полетная масса самолетов в течение 1943 г. в среднем поддерживалась одинаковой, равной 3000 кг, отклонение составляло 15...16 кг, что объяснялось наличием или отсутствием бронестекол и незначительными отклонениями в технологии производства.

2. Максимальная скорость серийных самолетов в процессе производства существенно не менялась и в среднем равнялась: у земли 531 +12/-9 км/ч, на 1-й границе высотности - 567 +10/-7 км/ч, на 2-й границе высотности - 588 +8/-11 км/ч.

Колебания максимальной скорости объяснялись рядом причин, в том числе: неодинаковым качеством производственного исполнения; разницей в номинальной мощности двигателей, установленных на самолетах, главным образом за счет неодинаковой регулировки давления наддува и др. Колебания мощности двигателей: у земли - 2,5%; на 1-й границе высотности - 3,3%; на 2-й границе высотности - 3,1%.

4. Время набора высоты 5000 м при 2600 об/мин равнялось 5,7 +0,6/-0,5 мин, при 2700 об/мин - на 0,6 мин меньше.
i hope you read this quote...

well, here we see science + competent conclusions of the specialist (i hope, you not like one user here, for whom opinion of the начальник Главного артиллерийского управления (ГАУ) and some findings from docs - it's "just opinions") = it's ALL what we need...

3 yak-7b with 522 (25 % from all in RL in 43, i think), 531 (50 %) and 543 (25 %) km/h at SL etc (it's just a sample), and with these planes we can simulate anything, anytime (with bad quality - but be OPERATING - and early version, with good quality and latest version, etc)...

+ very correct modelling of real, mass defects and problems (if DT wants)...


if someone wants "something special", because thinks what "soviet planes do drunken bears under guns of NKVD, and fly on this planes ugly untermensch's", he just take yak-7b 1941 instead yak-3...

well, everyone is happy...


anyway, it's my opinion and can be only my opinion...
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  #135  
Old 10-12-2012, 11:55 PM
IceFire IceFire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1984 View Post
well, la-5FN and 7 in game it's strange mix of good and bad and we just can't say what it's etalon/prototype... so, it's or very good planes for mid'43 and early'44, accordingly, or normal planes for late'43-44 and for late'44 (and we not have la-5f and fn'44 with metal spars = minus 70-80 kg, if i not wrong)...

la-5 and la-5f have correct performance, but have some errors here, and we can't say what it's really good planes...

and we not have first series of la-5 (only 3d model)...



yes, it's what i saying here too, but not all understand this...



i think, for russian planes don't need "love" of all, it's free choice of players, but to russian planes needed NORMAL attitudes of not russian players (unfortunately, and of some russian society's too)...



oh... now check it - 7 il-2 and 1 il-10, but 22 spitfires and 2 seafires, and it's only some 5-8-9...

8 vs 24...

"spitfire 1946"... well...



it's to be good, yes, and i can add here "easy to do" il-2 one-seater with am-38f, il-2 two-seater with shvaks and il-2KR (and other weapon loads, of course)...

well, lets see...
For online balance I've used the La-5F which is not all that different from a early 1943 La-5FN and use the FN in early/late 44 scenarios.

Also people shouldn't underestimate interest in a wide variety of aircraft. I love Russian aircraft and have a great interest in them even when my early interests were more with Spitfires and Mustangs. The Yak in particular has become a great interest to me.

On the subject of versions of Spitfire these are the versions you should actually count:

Spitfire V
Spitfire VIII
Spitfire IX
Seafire III

Everything else is a minor variation change with different supercharger, armament, desert filter, and/or clipped wings. It adds a lot of places on the list but they are not really separate aircraft. There are still more versions of 109 (even if we compress the list due to minor changes to canopy and tail section).
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  #136  
Old 10-13-2012, 01:34 PM
rpgielow rpgielow is offline
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Hey guys !!!

I think they should take a look on russian fighters damage model because we hit those planes and even when they start to smoke or lose a aileron, russian planes still can fly with no penalty to their performance in speed or agility :/

If you are playing in a bomber, forget about it !!! Because you can hit one million machine gun bullets in russian fighters engine and nothing happens
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  #137  
Old 10-13-2012, 01:35 PM
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Furio Furio is offline
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Originally Posted by gaunt1 View Post
And I think what you write is the BS. This thread isnt about how to fight soviet planes, or how to fight german planes. This isnt about tactics, teamwork, etc. Its about REALISM. I think IL-2 is a simulator, so it should be realistic. If you prefer prototype soviet planes, thats your problem. Well, OK, dont change the FM. But then at least some of them (La-5/F/FN/7) should get a 'prototype' suffix after the designation.



Really? Try an 1v1 fight against a La-7. There is NOTHING you can do against it. Cant turn, cant climb and cant run. At any altitude. If you think this is realistic... Your problem. I usually fly soviet planes. And in a La-7, I dont remember to use "Forsazh" more than a few seconds to shoot down german planes. Not much more difficult than a C-47. You think its realistic? Again, your problem.
In my opinion, the word “bullshit” should never be used, period. On the other end, the words “in my opinion” should be used more extensively.

I always look with suspicion performance figures reported by any source. Looking at numbers, even when authoritative sources agree on them, some historically acknowledged facts are unexplainable.
Examples are legion. Looking at numbers, one wonders how on earth Soviets could successfully fly the P39 against late model FW190 and Bf109, when the RAF discarded the very same plane in 1942 as “unsuitable”.

A slower LA7 could be more realistic, yes, but what about overall tactical and strategic situation? Late war months saw Luftwaffe fielding very good fighters, but they were outnumbered, plagued by poor manufacturing quality, bad maintenance and sabotage, and often flown by inexperienced pilots. A “realistic” sim should be able to reproduce the whole picture. If such a goal could be reached, the end result should be that early and late war months will be barely playable, too easy for LW in 1941, with almost no survival chances for VVS pilots, and the reverse for 1945. Tweaking La7 performances would make very little difference, if any.

In my opinion, Daidalos team is doing an excellent job in improving AI. In the end, this will gave all of us a much better and realistic sim.
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  #138  
Old 10-13-2012, 02:09 PM
IceFire IceFire is offline
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Originally Posted by rpgielow View Post
Hey guys !!!

I think they should take a look on russian fighters damage model because we hit those planes and even when they start to smoke or lose a aileron, russian planes still can fly with no penalty to their performance in speed or agility :/

If you are playing in a bomber, forget about it !!! Because you can hit one million machine gun bullets in russian fighters engine and nothing happens
I would agree that the damage model could use some looking at but the effects you're talking about are...frankly, wrong.

If a Russian plane looses an aileron/elevator/rudder the effects are the same as on other types of planes. Damage to the fuselage, wing, and other components also (sometimes severely) affects the handling. Try and fly any Yak with a damaged wing... it's not a fun flight home. A couple of bullets into a Yak's inline engine will kill the engine. I'm not sure how this impression was formed but I'd suggest some significant stick time in these aircraft. If you really want to see... get your buddy online to fly next to you with a turreted aircraft and have him shoot at different components surgically. See how it affects the aircraft.

Here's where the problems are: The graphical effects of there being damage to some of the older aircraft in the game doesn't always seem to appear. Hit the La-5 or La-7 (any model) in the engine from a rear gunner (from a bomber) and it will stop producing power, the RPM will drop, and the plane will begin to glide. But from a graphical point of view the propeller keeps windmilling and there is no smoke. Why this happens on the Yak or La series I'm not sure. The German planes got a lot more attention through the years IMHO and they seem to have kept up with the upgrades. On a Spit/P-47/F6F it'd have oil leaks and other stuff going on. I was recently surprised to see thick black smoke coming from a damaged Yak... something I'd not seen previously so TD may have given this some attention already.

But the bottom line is that the damage is being done and performance is affected. Sometimes the graphics aren't always showing it as well as they could.
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  #139  
Old 10-14-2012, 12:19 AM
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ElAurens ElAurens is offline
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I guess they have never experienced the dreaded "Yakwing" first hand IceFire.

A couple rounds in the wing and a Yak is essentially combat ineffective.
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Personally speaking, the P-40 could contend on an equal footing with all the types of Messerschmitts, almost to the end of 1943.
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  #140  
Old 10-14-2012, 02:34 AM
IceFire IceFire is offline
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Originally Posted by ElAurens View Post
I guess they have never experienced the dreaded "Yakwing" first hand IceFire.

A couple rounds in the wing and a Yak is essentially combat ineffective.
Probably not. Sure doesn't sound that way. I suspect there is some grass is greener on the other side stuff that goes on. The only way to explain some comments.
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