Soviet fighters and 4.12

[gaunt1]

Originally Posted by IceFire

... One second worth of shooting and you can de-tail some earlier Bf109 versions...

I dont know if the DM of the 109 is right or not, but I did it many times with just a pair of ShKAS. But the ShKAS isnt more powerful than other similar machineguns, like the MG17. Maybe if it would consume ammunition quicker...

[1984]

Originally Posted by 1984

and in real life FN pilots NOT open "stvorki" in fly, only if pilot wants to do this (no reasons in real fight and flight situations for stvorki FULL open, maybe for cooling engine sometimes), and was open only oil cooler, but only "по потоку", it means not full open, so - pilots and la-5 lose NOT 45-50 km/h...

i think, when oil cooler "по потоку" and stvorki open on 1/3 - this mean NO any problems with engine work (on forsazh too) - aircraft lose 20-25 km/h...

sorry for self quoting, interesting info about discipline, etc -

Главный инженер периодически проверял летчиков на знание материальной части и заносил результаты проверок в их личные дела. В случае если уровень знаний оказывался не удовлетворительным, инженер имел право отстранить летчиков от полетов и заставить изучать теорию.

[Jumoschwanz]

Well it is nice that so much fun has been had with this thread, but it was BS from the start. The Soviet planes in this sim have no huge speed advantages over their axis contemporaries if any at all, and very often while they may be a close match in speed at one altitude to axis fighters, they lose out at another badly.

The thread starter is obviously some sort of neophyte who made his own little IL2 world somewhere and got bored with it, and sucked you all in to his problems.

Every patch or two I test a large number of the aircraft in this sim at sea-level and at 5000 meters altitude with power and radiator settings as close as I can make them.
If you are not on some sort of children's server that throws all the years of WWII together at once, then there is no aircraft that is going to give you an advantage that will guarantee success.

The best advantage you can have is education and intelligence, and those who blame their problems in virtual aerial combat on their aircraft or the current patch of IL2 sure don't have those two attributes.

The really good and mature IL2 pilots over the past decade have prevailed through all the patches, flying all the aircraft both red and blue, and have been able to do it without bending the sim to suit their wet-dreams by modding it. Those are the guys I call aces.....

[ElAurens]

Well said.

[gaunt1]

Originally Posted by Jumoschwanz

Well it is nice that so much fun has been had with this thread, but it was BS from the start.

And I think what you write is the BS. This thread isnt about how to fight soviet planes, or how to fight german planes. This isnt about tactics, teamwork, etc. Its about REALISM. I think IL-2 is a simulator, so it should be realistic. If you prefer prototype soviet planes, thats your problem. Well, OK, dont change the FM. But then at least some of them (La-5/F/FN/7) should get a 'prototype' suffix after the designation.

The Soviet planes in this sim have no huge speed advantages over their axis contemporaries if any at all, and very often while they may be a close match in speed at one altitude to axis fighters, they lose out at another badly.

Really? Try an 1v1 fight against a La-7. There is NOTHING you can do against it. Cant turn, cant climb and cant run. At any altitude. If you think this is realistic... Your problem. I usually fly soviet planes. And in a La-7, I dont remember to use "Forsazh" more than a few seconds to shoot down german planes. Not much more difficult than a C-47. You think its realistic? Again, your problem.

[ElAurens]

gaunt1, are you talking online or offline?

[gaunt1]

About the test vs. La-7? Of course online. Human vs. human.

[Furio]

Originally Posted by gaunt1

And I think what you write is the BS. This thread isnt about how to fight soviet planes, or how to fight german planes. This isnt about tactics, teamwork, etc. Its about REALISM. I think IL-2 is a simulator, so it should be realistic. If you prefer prototype soviet planes, thats your problem. Well, OK, dont change the FM. But then at least some of them (La-5/F/FN/7) should get a 'prototype' suffix after the designation.



Really? Try an 1v1 fight against a La-7. There is NOTHING you can do against it. Cant turn, cant climb and cant run. At any altitude. If you think this is realistic... Your problem. I usually fly soviet planes. And in a La-7, I dont remember to use "Forsazh" more than a few seconds to shoot down german planes. Not much more difficult than a C-47. You think its realistic? Again, your problem.

In my opinion, the word “bullshit” should never be used, period. On the other end, the words “in my opinion” should be used more extensively.

I always look with suspicion performance figures reported by any source. Looking at numbers, even when authoritative sources agree on them, some historically acknowledged facts are unexplainable.
Examples are legion. Looking at numbers, one wonders how on earth Soviets could successfully fly the P39 against late model FW190 and Bf109, when the RAF discarded the very same plane in 1942 as “unsuitable”.

A slower LA7 could be more realistic, yes, but what about overall tactical and strategic situation? Late war months saw Luftwaffe fielding very good fighters, but they were outnumbered, plagued by poor manufacturing quality, bad maintenance and sabotage, and often flown by inexperienced pilots. A “realistic” sim should be able to reproduce the whole picture. If such a goal could be reached, the end result should be that early and late war months will be barely playable, too easy for LW in 1941, with almost no survival chances for VVS pilots, and the reverse for 1945. Tweaking La7 performances would make very little difference, if any.

In my opinion, Daidalos team is doing an excellent job in improving AI. In the end, this will gave all of us a much better and realistic sim.

[Jumoschwanz]

Originally Posted by gaunt1

Really? Try an 1v1 fight against a La-7. There is NOTHING you can do against it.

I could never remember the number of La7s I have shot down with Bf109s in this sim over the last dozen years, at least hundreds. If you added La5s then you are talking about thousands.

On the QMB's Pacific Islands map I have the la7 going 540kmh at sea level and 450 at 5000 meters alt. Testing axis aircraft on the same map with the same prop pitch and radiator settings and altitudes, I have the 190d9 going 530&460, the A8 going 530&460, the 109K4 going 540 and 490, the G10 going 540&470, the g6a/s 540&480.

So a statement like "There is nothing you can do against it" is silly isn't it? All you have to do is follow the simplest of tactics for instance starting the fight with a little more energy and you will be fine.
Not to mention if you spend your time on arcade servers flying around in an La7 you probably are not up against IL2 pilots of the best caliber.

I am sure that those working so hard to develop new patches for IL2 are fully aware that it is not perfect, and I am also sure that they know how to prioritize their activities for what needs fixed. They do a damn good job and IL2 is the best WWII flight sim ever.

So if you come up with new data and information that they might not have then maybe quietly and humbly emailing it to one of the developers would be a good way to go.

[MOH_Hirth]

If any plane have a incorrect parameter, of course must to be fixed, please stop change the discussion if can or not shotdown that plane, just and only if your Flight Model is correct or not, this is important, dont care if Russiam German or Haitian.

For me a good revision on FM worth more than a entire big patch.