a possible solution for overheating & low speed spitfire/hurricane in last Beta patch

[Kwiatek]

BS....

There is a lot problems with Spitifres and Hurricanes:

- all of them are too slow expecially at the deck - no engine settings change these. 87 Octan fuel versions ( +6 1/4 boost) are slow about 20-30 mph and 100 Octan fuel versions at emergency boost +12 lbs only reach historical speeds of + 6 1/4 boost version which mean that they are too slow also about 20-30mph. So its mean that all british fighters in CLOD are too slow about 20-30 mph. 109 is also too slow but much less - ab. 20-30 kph.

- no British plane in CLOD could maintain historical engine power settings from manuals without overheat and engine damage

Here are historical engine power settings from manuals:

Merlin III with CSP at 87 Octan fuel:

Max take off - +6 1/4 at 3000 RPM
Climbing (1/2 hour limit) - +6 1/4 at 2600 RPM
Continous cruising- +4 1/2 at 2600 RPM
All-out level flight (5 minutes limit) - +6 1/4 at 3000 RPM

Merlin III at 100 Octan :

Max take off - +6 1/4 at 3000 RPM
Climbing (1/2 hour)- +6 1/4 at 2850 RPM ( below 20 000 ft)
- 3000 RPM (above 20 000 ft)
All-out level flight (5 minutes) - +6 1/4 at 3000 RPM ( 5 minutes)
Emergency power (5 minutes) - +12 lbs at 3000 RPM ( 5 minutes)

Merlin XII at 100 Octan

Max take off - +12 at 3000 RPM
(emergency 3 or 5-minutes also)
Climbing (1/2 hour limit) - +9 at 2850 RPM
Continous cruising- +7 at 2650 RPM
All-out level flight (5 minutes limit)- +9 at 3000 RPM

Try the same in CLOD i mean expecially emergency power and nominal power ( climbing power) and you will see how long your engine will runing without damage.

[ATAG_Dutch]

See here Zap.

The RAF FMs are totally porked, but yes there are ways round it until the dev's put it right. The comment re: 100% rad is total BS, so in that I agree with Kwiatek.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=34124

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Dutch

See here Zap.

The RAF FMs are totally porked, but yes there are ways round it until the dev's put it right. The comment re: 100% rad is total BS, so in that I agree with Kwiatek.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=34124

i know they are seriously porked (see my other posts in this forum lamenting it) because since the game at last became playable with the early august beta patch, i have mainly been using the allied fighters and have experienced exactly those overheating and poor climbing/level airspeed issues when using CEM.

but i havnt had a chance yet to try the disastersoft guy's suggestion of opening the radiator before engine start and then keeping it open continuously during flight (without ever closing it, in case it from then on acts as if staying closed) to see if it makes a difference with the major overheating problem. if this makes some difference (i didnt say "solve" all FM and overheating problems), then it might indicate a bug in addition to the other incorrect FM issues we have with the hurricane and spitfire. in fact i have been doing the exact opposite with CEM, i deliberately keep the radiator closed at engine start and taxi to try warming the engine as quickly as possible and reach correct engine temp needed for takeoff power settings

so, for the other readers who are concerned about trying to resolve FM issues, other then going into hysterics about believing this means there being no problems at all , has anybody tried this new suggestion yet to see if it makes a difference in the overheating behavior ? (i cant see one poster here yet to confirm/reject this). with luthiers limited time and attention to fix the FM issues we have been complaining about, the more information we can give him the better.

[trademe900]

Ok my apologies, you have a point. Will have to try this full radiator before starting procedure. Might be a bug.

[senseispcc]

.
Is anyone here using the prop pitch to maintain the rpm to 2600 water temp to 99 and oil temp to 90 oil pres. 80 engine psi 4.5 to 5.5 radiator open or half closed mixture full rich until 17000 feet less psi higher and higher until 27000. This is not possible on the Spitfire MKI where I go from one pitch to the other depending of water and oil temp you should always monitor oil and water temp and play with the water radiator opening and the throttle and never go over 110 water temp for more than 5 min. I fly long missions in Spitfires and find this a fun but challenging plane to fly. Since the last beta patch I do not use the visual aids for throttle, pitch, radiator, etc… anymore for me it helps. The full raditor thing at take off is written in the Spitfirre manual in the real plane it should be done so why not in the simulated one?

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by zapatista

with luthiers limited time and attention to fix the FM issues we have been complaining about, the more information we can give him the better.

Zap, I and many others, have been testing the effects of radiator drag in the game since the latest patch release. Some of the results of the tests are in plain sight all over the forum. If you're suggesting that there is an actual game bug whereby the radiator drag effects are nullified by following this procedure, then by all means test it yourself and report your results.

However, I can tell you now, that the amount of surface area producing drag from the radiator shutters, programmed into the RAF fighters' Engine Modelling, was Doubled from v1.07 to v1.08. It was already 50% greater than the radiator shutter drag surface area plus oil cooler drag surface area modelled into the Bf109's Engine Modelling. This means that this surface area for drag calculation purposes in the RAF fighters is now Triple, three times, 300% greater, than that modelled in the Bf109s.

After extensive testing on a public server with temps effects off, then further extensive testing on a public server with temp effects on, i.e. ATAG server 2 and ATAG server 1 respectively, the workaround with 50% rad seen in the video, (if you even watched the video or followed the link) is the result.

In addition to the excessive radiator drag virtually nullifying any increase in rpm and/or increasing of boost setting, the relationship between adequate airspeed and engine cooling is dramatically more critical in the RAF fighters than in the 109s.

This information (in much greater detail) has already been communicated to both Luthier directly, and their FM programmer via BlackSix directly.

The problems surrounding incorrect mixture modelling also highlighted in the link I gave have also been communicated directly by both me and IvanK.

I would've explained this earlier, but I'm a one fingered typist, and posting stuff of this length more than once gets on my wick a bit. Please read the thread I linked in more detail.

Thanks Mate.

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Dutch

I would've explained this earlier, but I'm a one fingered typist, and posting stuff of this length more than once gets on my wick a bit. Please read the thread I linked in more detail.

Thanks Mate.

Funny!...I am a one finger wonder too. Have you considered using speech to text, then copy/paste here. I was going to try that, but then I realized that, I rarely have much to say....edit: Dutch you have to try this, I just did with zero mistakes using Win 7...give it a try!

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Dutch

I would've explained this earlier, but I'm a one fingered typist, and posting stuff of this length more than once gets on my wick a bit. Please read the thread I linked in more detail.

thanks for explaining it, i had seen the other thread with people discussing radiator settings and knew some non-logical settings might partially reduce some of the FM issues

the reason for me post this thread was to flag what the disastersoft guy seems to be specifically suggesting in reply to a customer question about overheating, ie to open the radiator before engine start, and then never close or change its setting again. he seems to think that gives a major change for the better, i have no idea if it does (and cant try it for a few days), hence me posting it.

note: i removed the initial closed typo picked up by Dutch's post below , 'cause leaving it in seemed to confuse more people later

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by zapatista

suggesting in reply to a customer question about overheating, ie to close the radiator before engine start, and then never open it.

But that's the opposite of what he said Zap. He said;

'Open Cowling FULL before start engine and Do not close it!'

This would currently be equivalent to flying along with a twenty foot parachute tied to your a*se (exaggeration, just in case any purists object).

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Dutch

But that's the opposite of what he said Zap. He said;

'Open Cowling FULL before start engine and Do not close it!'

This would currently be equivalent to flying along with a twenty foot parachute tied to your a*se (exaggeration, just in case any purists object).

lol, errr, of course you'r right on that last one typo in that last post after a long work day (*edit made in original post)

what peaked my interest on his comment is that he set it to open before engine start, and then never touched it again, as if altering its setting after engine start might lock it closed with the engine more prone to overheating from then on (yet still be subject to drag with cowling open). whereas i, and prob most people, close it at start, then keep changing it ones the engines warms up and then mostly keep it open unless at very high altitude

at what started as a simple suggestion (from him) and my wanting to know if others had tried it, it all become a bit long winded and out of proportion, i'll try it on the WE. if from then on you see a high speed spitfire able to match the hun online, that be me and no begging for trade secrets will get me to reveal its method

ps: i do note what you said about the parachute effect reversing whatever speed gain might be created