My little 109 v spit experiment

[Slipstream2012]

Originally Posted by trademe900

Interesting read from a 'red only' perspective.

Personally I can not understand why anyone would not fly all the aircraft in the game, it's interesting and you pay for them.

I totally agree!

[Toni74]

Originally Posted by Slipstream2012

I totally agree!

i don't. I'm totally all right with flying my favorite bf 110 only. that's i've bought this game. i dont interested in flying any other planes.

[TomcatViP]

yes the 110 is one of the most interesting plane to fly in CoD. I do agree.

Sadly it's too easy to fly. Devs have a lot of tweaking to make it less perfect

[lonewulf]

the nose weapons configuration is great. they shoot where you point it! (unlike the wing-mounted only fighters) my confidence in the trajectory of the fire is much greater with the 109. This is historical, and reflects one of the real advantages the 109 had - its armament.

This isn't the first time I've heard this but really it makes little sense in relation to a 109 "E". You could certainly make the case with later variants of the 109 because they incorporated an engine mounted cannon, but the E had just two little MG 17s in the cowl. That gives you about the same stopping power as a Sopwith Camel or a Fokker D7! Furthermore, all of the forward firing weapons on a fighter are harmonized to group at a given range, not just the wing guns. If you shoot at too great a range, you miss, unless of course you incorporate some elements of successful deflection shooting within your calculations. Gravitational forces apply equally to wing and fuselage mounted weapons.

I don't usually fly red but I can assure you that once my 10 seconds worth of cannon ammo have been expended (uselessly in most cases) I'd very happily swap my twin MG 17s for your eight Brownings any day of the week!

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by lonewulf

I don't usually fly red but I can assure you that once my 10 seconds worth of cannon ammo have been expended (uselessly in most cases) I'd very happily swap my twin MG 17s for your eight Brownings any day of the week!

I'd very happily swap my eight .303 for two nose mounted MG 17s with 60 seconds of fire. I fly both RAF and LW and the stopping power and accuracy of the nose mounted mgs is great and suits me well. You can shoot long range and you can keep the thumb on the trigger for much longer. The effect is suprisingly strong when you hit well - works against 109s and RAF fighters as well - fire, PKs, important parts falling off etc... Flying for the RAF, you might have more guns but unless you get your target on the convergence range, you're wasting your 14 seconds of fire. Now getting a good 109 pilot to convergence range is a bit of a problem on its own, but even against the bombers, the MG17s are very effective and you can snipe from very long distance. Works great, trajectory is nice as it should be. Just my 0.02, YMMW of course...

Whoever said in this thread that the armament was an advantage on LW side was right - nose mounted mgs + cannons = hell of a punch. Good shot will be succesful with anything, but I admit the MG17 are a great weapon when used right, as a RAF pilot I fear not the Oerlikon cannons, but long range MG 17.

[trademe900]

Originally Posted by Robo.

I'd very happily swap my eight .303 for two nose mounted MG 17s with 60 seconds of fire. I fly both RAF and LW and the stopping power and accuracy of the nose mounted mgs is great and suits me well. You can shoot long range and you can keep the thumb on the trigger for much longer. The effect is suprisingly strong when you hit well - works against 109s and RAF fighters as well - fire, PKs, important parts falling off etc... Flying for the RAF, you might have more guns but unless you get your target on the convergence range, you're wasting your 14 seconds of fire. Now getting a good 109 pilot to convergence range is a bit of a problem on its own, but even against the bombers, the MG17s are very effective and you can snipe from very long distance. Works great, trajectory is nice as it should be. Just my 0.02, YMMW of course...

Whoever said in this thread that the armament was an advantage on LW side was right - nose mounted mgs + cannons = hell of a punch. Good shot will be succesful with anything, but I admit the MG17 are a great weapon when used right, as a RAF pilot I fear not the Oerlikon cannons, but long range MG 17.

German plane armament is a huge advantage.

I actually feel the .303s are undermodelled in current state, according to many combat reports. 8 .303 is actually pretty lethal at close range with an astonishing amount of rounds tearing through the plane. What's strange is you can get pilot kills all the time with the MG17, but with 8 guns putting down an enormous amount of lead you can barely get pilot kills??

All the .303 are good for in this current state is putting a large amount of rounds over a plane, with 1 or 2 rounds likely to strike the radiators and cooling system- thing is though, the planes can go forever with burst rads/streaming glycol. This claimed a huge amount of aircraft in real life.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by trademe900

I actually feel the .303s are undermodelled in current state, according to many combat reports. 8 .303 is actually pretty lethal at close range with an astonishing amount of rounds tearing through the plane. What's strange is you can get pilot kills all the time with the MG17, but with 8 guns putting down an enormous amount of lead you can barely get pilot kills??

Sorry I tend to disagree here. I have quite a few PKs when I aim well and I find the .303 pretty effective even in default (historical) setup. Often it's matter of luck - sometimes you hit him well and he keeps going alright, sometimes a few bullets find home from your burst and there he bails out immediately. Pretty cool imho although I've been in situations where I got shot down by a 109 that I shot down twice already. Such is the life of a RAF jockey lol. You just need to shoot well, that's it.

Originally Posted by trademe900

All the .303 are good for in this current state is putting a large amount of rounds over a plane, with 1 or 2 rounds likely to strike the radiators and cooling system- thing is though, the planes can go forever with burst rads/streaming glycol. This claimed a huge amount of aircraft in real life.

Oh yes, the cooling system damage is non-existent and you can pretty much ignore the leak. Funny thing is that sometimes your a/c actually cools better with a radiator leak. How is that?

[NZtyphoon]

Originally Posted by Robo.

I'd very happily swap my eight .303 for two nose mounted MG 17s with 60 seconds of fire. I fly both RAF and LW and the stopping power and accuracy of the nose mounted mgs is great and suits me well. You can shoot long range and you can keep the thumb on the trigger for much longer. The effect is suprisingly strong when you hit well - works against 109s and RAF fighters as well - fire, PKs, important parts falling off etc... Flying for the RAF, you might have more guns but unless you get your target on the convergence range, you're wasting your 14 seconds of fire. Now getting a good 109 pilot to convergence range is a bit of a problem on its own, but even against the bombers, the MG17s are very effective and you can snipe from very long distance. Works great, trajectory is nice as it should be. Just my 0.02, YMMW of course...

Whoever said in this thread that the armament was an advantage on LW side was right - nose mounted mgs + cannons = hell of a punch. Good shot will be succesful with anything, but I admit the MG17 are a great weapon when used right, as a RAF pilot I fear not the Oerlikon cannons, but long range MG 17.

Was it Adolf Galland who likened the 109 to lining up a well fitted shotgun to the shoulder while with the British fighters it felt like trying to aim the weapon at arms length? Apparently when the Merlin was first mooted some thought was given to making it an inverted vee-12, and making allowances for an engine-mounted cannon, same as the DB and Jumo series - just imagine the Hurricane and Spitfire roaring in to the attack with a couple of .303s blazing away on the nose and a working Hispano firing through the propeller hub...and maybe a couple of Hispanos in the wings?

Just for interest this is Emmanual Gustin's page on WW2 aircraft gun ballistics.

[beazil]

Originally Posted by NZtyphoon

... just imagine the Hurricane and Spitfire roaring in to the attack with a couple of .303s blazing away on the nose and a working Hispano firing through the propeller hub...and maybe a couple of Hispanos in the wings?

Ahh, the hispanukes. I've often wondered, and would have liked to have had the opportunity to play around with guns in this and other games - to try various weapons configs that were a-historical.

I'd love to play for example with a 109 armed with 8 mg17's - just for the fun of it, or a spitfire armed with three hispanos.

There are no sims I am aware of that allow this kind of manipulation of weapons systems though - at least not without major hacking abilities, which I sorely lack.

This has been a fabulous discussion though. Thanks guys. S!

[TomcatViP]

Originally Posted by NZtyphoon

just imagine the Hurricane and Spitfire roaring in to the attack with a couple of .303s blazing away on the nose and a working Hispano firing through the propeller hub...

it would hve been called a Dewoitine ... with a working efficient engine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__-Hn_-VtGg