Air Force Bases of CloD - Printable cards

[JVM]

Hello Tom!

This is a very nice idea you got there...I will not say anything about the english A/F which are quite well documented anyway as most of them were existing before war.
However concerning the german ones, your work also emphasizes how horribly wrong the french side airfield representation from 1C is!
It is absolutely no fault from you as you just got the material 1C has been creating and this material was done almost as an afterthought by projecting large blotches of an always identical texture in the airfield locations. Problem is that the shape is generally all wrong (the airfields had shapes wich were following the underlying farm fields), and the fields are far too large: it was very rare to have more than 1000 m in the largest dimension.
The texture is obviously all wrong, and worse the hangar/revetment/dispersal area are totally imaginary and bore no resemblance whatsoever with the real thing. The relief rendering is also quite bad: the relief at these german places was often not what you would expect for an airfield in UK or Russia...The Germans had no qualms about slopes...

This being said I just hope in a more or less far future it will be possible to correct that in the main map (I will be willingly heralding the effort...) but this will not happen before the dust settles on the CLOD present issues and before the SDK becomes available.

There is nothing you can do at the moment unfortunately but I can give you some alterations to make in order to be more precise:

1) Calais Marck is quite OK: even the main hangar is quite close to its initial position but I believe is the wrong type (it was a french "standard" hangar not a german blister).
The parking areas (better use the word "dispersal") were to the north of the field and to the south of the south highway. The indicated zones are actually part the takeoff/landing area and were not used (this applies to basically all german fields).
The indicated runway axises are not really necessary (unless due to the 1C way of making LDG/TO axises) the full area was used depending on wind direction and urgency.

2) Boulogne ALPRECH (not ALPERCH): main axis was more 130-310. Dispersal areas are on the field edges north and east. Hangars location is total fantasy (only four in reality including a concrete one of civilian french origin to the extreme north of the field)

3) Desvres: shape quite OK. Dispersal areas are North, North West and South on the edges. Most of them were individual hangars interspersed with netted revetments and they were aligned alongside the edge of the field in the NW part, hidden in the wood on the N part and around the (not shown!!!) manor/farm to the South...we are a long way from the truth here...

4) Campagne-lès-Guînes (not Champ Les Guines): shape far too large but axis about OK (that was really the only practicable axis). It was an extremely uneven field. Only one hangar known, in the village itself...All the rest were revetments on the NE edge of the villaged, and NW alongside the woods (not even in the woods themselves due to extreme density of said woods).
The hangars shown are pure invention, unfortunately.

5) Hydrequent: actually known by the Germans as "Marquise Ost". Shape is all wrong: should be a triangle with a corner at the south near the Hydrequent village. Hangars are totally out of wack, as usual.

Real dispersal areas were north around a large farm, east around an old mining operation (north of Hydrequent village) and south east around another large farm on the west boundary of the Hydrequent village. Individual hangars and one blister hangar to the SE.

6) Colembert: too large...the field was limited by the road to the south. The south part of the CLOD field is actually 50m lower than the rest. Colembert A/F was on a high plain, and the south part of the shown field is actally the Colembert village in the valley, 50 m lower...In this village there is also a splendid castle which is not only a very visible landmark but was also the location of the I./JG3 and Stab/JG3 quarters.
The hangars to the east are correct. To the west they were on the wood edge...

7) Coquelles: shape about OK. Main axis was about 020-200 and the secondary was more like 100-260. Main dispersal areas were a wood on the west (at least 15 m hgher than the field centeraround a large farm to the North and around another one to the south east all on the periphery of the field (as usual the full field area was used for T/O and Ldg)

8 ) Samer: shape quite OK, axis as well. Most of the dispersal area was at the NE end, and there were probably no hangars, only netted revetments as usual only on the edges of the field.

9) Hermelinghem: shape is quite OK but much too long toward the WNW. There was also a perpendicular axis on the eastern edge. No hangars, only netted revetments semi-hidden alongside the large trees at the north of the field with a U-shaped earth mound around the tail of each Bf 109 (at least 12 are still identifiable to this day).

10) Oye plage: location is OK and that's about it...the shape is twice too high; it was extremely elongated alongside the only one usable 07-25 axis and it was a grass/sand airfield. What you show as the main axis is actually the main road between Oye plage and Gravelines and the field was slightly north of that road.
There never was a paved runway...actually no BoB airfield had a paved runway ever! Those only appeared in the end of 1940 and mainly 1941/1942.
Dispersal areas north (around a farm) and south around another farm and a small copse.

11) Pihen: again, far too large but shape is OK. Main dispersal area was around a manor and adjacent wood at the SE end (not shown on CLOD map because crushed by the texture blotch...)

I will stop there and come back later (if you are interested!)

Amically

JVM

[5./JG27.Farber]

Originally Posted by JVM

The indicated runway axises are not really necessary (unless due to the 1C way of making LDG/TO axises) the full area was used depending on wind direction and urgency.

I always presumed this but never found any evidence. I also wondered why in the FMB the hangers that fall under the German category are the same ones on French airfields on the map. Would make allot more sense for them to be French.

Some good information there. Thanks for sharing.

[VO101_Tom]

Originally Posted by JVM

Hello Tom!

This is a very nice idea you got there...I will not say anything about the english A/F which are quite well documented anyway as most of them were existing before war.
However concerning the german ones, your work also emphasizes how horribly wrong the french side airfield representation from 1C is!
...

Thx

Of course there are faults (i notice many duplications (Hawkinge and Willmington almost the same), or huge hangars around Crecy), but i had to draw the ingame objects. Your collection very impressive, although I do not think this will ever change :/

Tere are many AFB without paved or grass runaway. I draw take off and landing directions, because no matter the layout, the AFB's Air Traffic Control define these directions ewery time, when they report daily operations. We can't ask the ATC in the game, so i anticipated of a supposed direction.

I will correct the names. Thx.

[JVM]

I still hope for the future...but nothing can be done without the SDK and an agreement with MG as it concerns a main map (airfields are not the only things to be corrected: harbors, coastal trait, landmarks, relief, railways and large towns are all in sore need of almost total rework!).
Do you want me to continue? I will also publish a link for a large photo of one of the airfields in 1943 (I will use Desvres I think): they were abandoned at the time but pretty much in the state of their heyday in 1940, just for fun, to show the truth and why I am so intent on one day make a proper work of this.
Note also that 1C/MG had all this data and more (from you servant)...but for some strange reason they did not use it except locations...even then with mistakes sometimes.

[VO101_Tom]

Originally Posted by JVM

I still hope for the future...but nothing can be done without the SDK and an agreement with MG as it concerns a main map (airfields are not the only things to be corrected: harbors, coastal trait, landmarks, relief, railways and large towns are all in sore need of almost total rework!).

I doubt if the map SDK ever released, we can modify the original maps. BlackSix or Luther mentioned before, the size of the SDK maps will be limited.

Originally Posted by JVM

Do you want me to continue? I will also publish a link for a large photo of one of the airfields in 1943 (I will use Desvres I think): they were abandoned at the time but pretty much in the state of their heyday in 1940, just for fun, to show the truth and why I am so intent on one day make a proper work of this.

Sure, very interesting these collection!

[ogalcor]

Good job!!

[JVM]

Originally Posted by VO101_Tom

I doubt if the map SDK ever released, we can modify the original maps. BlackSix or Luther mentioned before, the size of the SDK maps will be limited.

Hence a special agreement "à la" Team Daedalos...this is not going to happen overnight! We shall see in due time...I do not think it will be even possible to discuss this before the next episode is launched and found successful. Every one knows especially MG how much CLOD is lacking in substance (beyond the present issues which will be solved for sure as they affect game play) ...Many aircraft types are missing, everything related to Sea Lion is missing (like it was not important!) and the French side seems to have been dealt with extreme urgency without time to look for details...I suspect this is exactly what happened for reasons we are not privy to.
I still smirk at looking at trees alongside harbor quays or a nice green covering tracks in railway steam stations!

So let's go back to our little list:

12) Peuplingues: this one is simply catastrophic: its shape is very much elongated yes, but on a SW NE axis, not NW SE!
It is 500 m too far to the north in the deep of a small valley. The real place was actually at the top of a hill with rather steep incline to the SW, and less steep to the NW.
Usable runway length was about 900 m, and on one main axis (with some more leeway on the NE side).
Attached is a 1949 view (the agricultural hangar mentioned did not exist, and the firing butt is unfortunately in the wrong location...this after I got a HD 1943 photo!).
There is nothing which can be done on this one for now...

13) Saint Omer WIZERNES (not WIZENNES). Also known as "Longuenesse"

Location and shape quite OK.
Main axis was 270-090 and only 700 m long, beginning on the western edge of the shape. Another axis 190-010 was available (still is actually) about 750 m long starting at the eastern end of the first one toward the south (making a V).
In this case the eastern part of the shape was indeed used as temporary dispersal: there was (and still is) a horse track at the time there. The south part was not used as dispersal as it was a landing zone.

A large blister hangar is missing at the north side, and many other locations for individual hangars in the NW part of the field. The one at the south are OK, not the one at the north. For those interested refer at the 1943 photo (see details to get it at the end of the message). Attached is a photo of the 50m wide blister workshop hangar of Saint Omer Wizernes (one of the last survivors of the species). I cannot prove it but I believe the hangar (prefabricated) was installed quickly after German take over in 1940.

14) Saint Omer Arques

Location and shape OK. hangers at the SW OK, not so much on the SE. Main dispersal areas were north of the north road. Main axis is OK, but the full airfield was as usual a landing area. A 50m workshop hangar was installed in the Clairmarais forest to the north east (much beyond the railway line) and connected to the field via a long taxiway. This hanagr still survives to this day but not for much longer anymore (it had been moved to an industrial zone near town in 1946. Its original basement is still visible)

15) Saint Omer Clairmarais

Location OK, shape not OK: the (OK) main axis was about 800 m long beginning on the west side. Another axis also 800 m long was at 90 ° from the first one toward the south, beginning at the end of the first one. All the area to the east is and was actually a swamp.
Dispersal area was exclusively made of netted revetments west and south at the edge of the forest. The hangars indicated in the SE are all wrong. A large 40m blister hangar was installed in a farm just north of the field (basement still visible to this day).

16) Saint Inglevert

Location OK but far too large. Main axis 220 040 about OK but only 900 m long usable. All area east of main axis was used as landing area, but the airfield did not extend beyond the main axis to the W. The 130 310 axis never existed (physically impossible on the real airfield)

Two french hangars were at the south of the place, and the dispersal areas were alongside the eastern, southern and northern edge of the field. The airfield would be later extended toward NW, and equipped with a still existing and active paved runway, but only in 1941.

17) Audembert location a bit too much to the south (the road toward Audembert on the east was the limit, and it is slighly covered by the "blotch"). Axis OK in direction and length. Dispersal areas were south of the field and west of the field.
Note: the beginning a large hill ("le Mont de Couple") was just NE and E of the field...you would not believe it by looking at the road network! There was a 30 m blister hangar in the SW corner inside the hamlet of Warcove.

18 ) Guînes (not Guines)

Location OK, main (and unique) axis a bit more north 040 220, on a 1100 m run (yes!) almost to the town at the NE, and to the wood at the SW. dispersal alongside the wood edge and the town limit, alongside the straight street.

19) Marquise West

Location OK, shape all wrong. Actually very elongated and quite narrow on the indicated main axis 020 200. Usable length no more than 900 m beginning at about he crossing point of the two indicated axises to ward the 020.
The other axis never existed (physical impossibility IRL).
Two dispersal areas, both including a 30 m blister hangar (the only type represented in CLOD!) at the W edge (Ledquent village) and E edge (Marquise town). The arrangement was quite complex...and nowhere to be found in CLOD...but you guessed it already.

20) Wissant: quite OK as it is. Dispersal areas north and south edges of the field.

21) Caffiers: utterly wrong from A to Z. Misplaced.

The field dispersal area was actually Caffiers village (including a blister hangar) and along side the railways line on the west. The field only take off direction (actually 010 190) was going upslope by 15 m high in the first 300 m...and then going on on a more flat area for another 700 m. Pilots had to be real careful there...lotsa work to make it real here!

22) Zutkerque (not Zuterque)/ location OK but too large. The axis was more 020 200 on only 700 m beginning at the road covered by the blotch. No hangars whatsoever, a blister hangar to the SW and some netted revetments on the same side. Those indicated are wrong.

In your final list, you have one "s" too much at "Peuplingues", a w instead of v in St Inglevert, "Clairmarrias" instead of "Clairmarais" and the other spelling mistakes already mentioned.
I would like to point out again that your work is an excellent idea, very atmospheric and well executed....I just hope one day I will be able to help you make it still better...
Let me know for the rest of the fields possibly before edition...I can help.

For those interested to have very nice not free of right HD photos of some of these fields in 1943 send me your email address by MP. I can and will not put them in public access.

JVM

[bongodriver]

Seeing as we are discussing map corrections I would add that ramsgate airfield is totally wrong, it 'never' had a hard pave runway, the airfield was a small civil airport and was comandeered by the RAF during the war and was used as a satelite to manston, the way the game map portrays it it would seem to be a more major airfield than Manston.

some history on it...

http://oldramsgate.blogspot.co.uk/20...ellaneous.html

[JVM]

I never looked in the british airfields as many people are (more) competent there but I guess the correction work will be also heavy on this side later on...hopefully...

[skouras]

thanks JVM
for that infos very interesting indeed
i hope that they release the SDK so some good modders could make very interesting things
Perhaps when next sequel released