British FM killing the fun of the game for allied pilots.

[JG3_Hartmann]

Originally Posted by *Buzzsaw*

If British aircraft performed this poorly, the RAF would have lost the BoB instead of shooting down far more German aircraft despite being completely outnumbered.

Well, but you forget, that the main reason for the higher losses of the Luftwaffe are, that they had to fly over enemy territory, so no bailed out pilot would come home to fly again.
The 109 had a short range, and they used the wrong tactics (staying near the bombers and so on).
When the RAF began to use the Big Wing tactic, the fate changed even more for the RAF.
And because of their Radar, they knew where the enemie bombers would come from, and could guess where they would go to.

They didn´t win because their planes were highly superior, but because of better tactics, and more luck.

The Hurricane was, except for turning, outclassed by the 109 in everything, expect maybe for handling, and the Spitfire could turn better and was a bit faster below 4000m. But if they flew higher than 4000m the 109 was as fast as the Spit, even a bit faster.

But I have to say, even if I mostly fly the German planes (and just to make the list complete, the 110 is nearly 50km/h to slow too), that it´s not much fun to fight with a Hurricane or Spitfire against a well flown 109.
Not enough that I could bang my head against the canopy everytime I have to start the engine, which is every time a fight if it will keep running or not , but also during the normal flight and during a fight. I may have some problems with the red engines, but without doubt I can say, there´s something rotten in the case of red fighters.

But!, like others said before, the blue planes don´t meet their real performance too.

What I personally find very funny is, that over more than 10 years, it were mostly the blue planes who were undermodelled compared to the red (mostly Russian) planes (or maybe they were made better than they were), and now, we have a similar situation, although I think, it´s not so extreme like it was some years ago with old Il2.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by JG3_Hartmann

The Hurricane was, except for turning, outclassed by the 109 in everything, expect maybe for handling, and the Spitfire could turn better and was a bit faster below 4000m. But if they flew higher than 4000m the 109 was as fast as the Spit, even a bit faster.

Very good post mate! Just to clarify, noone expects the Hurricane to be able to outclimb the 109, but the fact that it does not have superior turn rate to either Spitfire or 109 is rather shocking. As it is, the Hurricane can't be flown to historical specs due to engine everheating issues AND you haven't got even the one and only advantage which was the good turnrate. Just as you mentioned it...

As for the atitude vs. speed when comparing the 109 and Spitfire - that was wrong way around actually and completely unhistorical. There is no altitude where Spitfire would enjoy speed superiority at all, and funnily enough, the only altitude where you can match the 109s was actually way above 4000m. I hope you get my point about the realtive FMs being completely wrong. Somehow they happen to be more frustrating for the red side at this moment, therefore I mostly agree with OP.

Originally Posted by JG3_Hartmann

But I have to say, even if I mostly fly the German planes (and just to make the list complete, the 110 is nearly 50km/h to slow too)

Oh yes, there is no doubt that the DB 601s are not up to specs, too. I love the 109 and I fly it very often, but in current version, I don't seem to 'feel' the lack of speed. I know the top speed is not correct and I hope it will be one day, but I never actually needed those 50km/h because of the RAF FMs. If they fixed both sides, the gap simply would not be as huge as it is now. That is my point...

Originally Posted by JG3_Hartmann

that it´s not much fun to fight with a Hurricane or Spitfire against a well flown 109.
Not enough that I could bang my head against the canopy everytime I have to start the engine, which is every time a fight if it will keep running or not , but also during the normal flight and during a fight. I may have some problems with the red engines, but without doubt I can say, there´s something rotten in the case of red fighters.

Exactly. Plus the overheating and you're frustrated as the OP.

Originally Posted by JG3_Hartmann

What I personally find very funny is, that over more than 10 years, it were mostly the blue planes who were undermodelled compared to the red (mostly Russian) planes (or maybe they were made better than they were), and now, we have a similar situation, although I think, it´s not so extreme like it was some years ago with old Il2.

Well, I also have 10+ years in 1946 and I remember all the FM changes. I flew with 'blue' squad and I never felt the 109s or 190 undermodelled. Quite the opposite with G-2 or G-6/AS . Of course there are Russian UFOs but they were beatable at certain conditions (altitude etc). I have lots of hours in all of the planes in 1946 including the crapplanes, especially them - so I can tell you that my opinion and experience is, that it's not so easy to beat any planes, especially the blue ones, if they're well flown. That's fair enough of course. There are more planes to choose from and the tactics and balance were easier to cope with. In CloD, you only have 3 main fighters and the 109 is untouchable unless he starts to do silly stuff. They're all porked, but the RAF ones are porked better

*edit* spelling