Fultures!

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by klem

Feet back on the ground and a lesson from history. Please forgive me if I don't get the books off the shelf and trawl through for the exact airfield and Geshwader but Al Deere in his book "Nine Lives" and Pierre Closterman (who was on the same raid in a different Squadron) in his book "The Big Show" tell of the time they took off across the channel to a LW airfield to where FW190s had just relocated.

The plan was for Deere's wing to fly at treetop level to the LW field and hit them on the ground. The French Squadron was to loiter south at low altitude to intercept any interference from other LW units.

As Deere's Wing approached the field they saw from a distance the entire Geschwader lined up for takeoff. By the time they go there the alarm had been raised and the FWs were up and running in all directions. They shot up what they could at the field but if they had arrived two minutes earlier.......

Yes there was lots of flak but most of them got away with it due to surprise.

There are other similar stories.........

except of course that on the current ATAG server (which is only important in this discussion because it is the only major CoD server that has been running for a number of months so that is where new players are likely to go to first) there is no decent AA at these forward allied airfields, and no sirens warning of camping vultures when you spawn there, and additional it is the permanent same fake-real air quake scenario every day at those airfields, that's what makes it boring and fake

in your above historical example, just pretend there was no AA present, and the same thing happened day in day out during the whole 4 year war, do you really think that the germans at that airfield would be looking at each other in amazement "ahh ze brittish they are so smart, every day now they come and bomb us and we are alwayz completely zurprised by them, ze AA guys are having a nap unt ze air tower guys have gone to ze pub unt forgot to set ze alarms, these clever british always seem to know this ahead of time and just keep shooting up our planes on ze ground"

realistic ? err nope !

[ATAG_Bliss]

Originally Posted by zapatista

except of course that on the current ATAG server (which is only important in this discussion because it is the only major CoD server that has been running for a number of months so that is where new players that want to try a server are likely to go) there is no decent AA at these forward allied airfields, and no sirens warning of camping vultures when you spawn there, and additional it is the permanent same fake-real air quake scenario every day at those airfields, that's what makes it boring and fake

in your above historical example, just pretend there was no AA present, and the same thing happened day in day out, with the germans looking at each other in amazement "ahh ze brittish they are so smart, every day now they come and bomb us and we are alwayz completely zurprised by them, ze AA guys are having a nap unt ze air tower guys have gone to ze pub unt forgot to set ze alarms, these clever british always seem to know this ahead of time and just keep shooting up our planes on ze ground, maybe zey vil even vin ze war like this"

realistic ? err nope !

There's literally thousands of AAA on our missions. If you'd do some research instead of just blabbing off the mouth about stuff you don't know about, you'd also realize there's been many complaints about the sheer number of AAA/Flak we do have. (AKA - people getting shot down by them) The effectiveness of the AAA (which we have improved heavily over default by how we place them and what units) is not our fault. And if you knew anything about the FMB or anything about missions in the online world, you'd also know that airfield sirens do not work and have never worked since IL2COD was released.

Can't wait to see your realistic perfect mission rotations that magically have all the stuff working in game that is broken. Please enlighten us oh mighty keyboard hero..

[AbortedMan]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Bliss

There's literally thousands of AAA on our missions. If you'd do some research instead of just blabbing off the mouth about stuff you don't know about, you'd also realize there's been many complaints about the sheer number of AAA/Flak we do have. (AKA - people getting shot down by them) The effectiveness of the AAA (which we have improved heavily over default by how we place them and what units) is not our fault. And if you knew anything about the FMB or anything about missions in the online world, you'd also know that airfield sirens do not work and have never worked since IL2COD was released.

Can't wait to see your realistic perfect mission rotations that magically have all the stuff working in game that is broken. Please enlighten us oh mighty keyboard hero..

Such a negative response to a legitimate vocalization of a person's opinion...why? What is your rage issue with people talking about your mission and FMB? Sarcastic quips in a potentially informative post achieve nothing but forum degradation.

The guy obviously has seen a lack of anti-air efficacy, and he isn't the only one. You think maybe there might be an issue?...just maybe?

[Volksieg]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Bliss

There's literally thousands of AAA on our missions. If you'd do some research instead of just blabbing off the mouth about stuff you don't know about, you'd also realize there's been many complaints about the sheer number of AAA/Flak we do have. (AKA - people getting shot down by them) The effectiveness of the AAA (which we have improved heavily over default by how we place them and what units) is not our fault. And if you knew anything about the FMB or anything about missions in the online world, you'd also know that airfield sirens do not work and have never worked since IL2COD was released.

Can't wait to see your realistic perfect mission rotations that magically have all the stuff working in game that is broken. Please enlighten us oh mighty keyboard hero..

Actually.... I'd like to complain also. I keep getting shot down by AAA when flying on your server. I don't think it is kind and I don't think it is fair. I suggest that, next time I fly on ATAG, you gift me with an indestructible 109 complete with miniature atom bomb and lasers...... just to even things out as I feel well rotten! I really do!

[klem]

Originally Posted by zapatista

except of course that on the current ATAG server (which is only important in this discussion because it is the only major CoD server that has been running for a number of months so that is where new players are likely to go to first) there is no decent AA at these forward allied airfields, and no sirens warning of camping vultures when you spawn there, and additional it is the permanent same fake-real air quake scenario every day at those airfields, that's what makes it boring and fake

in your above historical example, just pretend there was no AA present, and the same thing happened day in day out during the whole 4 year war, do you really think that the germans at that airfield would be looking at each other in amazement "ahh ze brittish they are so smart, every day now they come and bomb us and we are alwayz completely zurprised by them, ze AA guys are having a nap unt ze air tower guys have gone to ze pub unt forgot to set ze alarms, these clever british always seem to know this ahead of time and just keep shooting up our planes on ze ground"

realistic ? err nope !

I do notice there is quite a lot of flak at ATAG RAF fields but it isn't very effective (a CoD issue not a mission design issue I think). And the RL Ack at Tangmere didn't do much good when the Stukas arrived on 16th August 1940 although I think about 9 or 10 were shot down by Spitfires and Hurricanes.

Also amusing is that whilst it was Manston that was hit the hardest and most often including 109 strafing attacks (it happened to Deere when he was landing there) until it was eventually abandoned for operations, it doesn't happen much on ATAG, those lazy Blues take the short route to Hawkinge. Realistic? To some extent yes. Hawkinge is CoD's Manston and is almost unuseable on some nights, just like Manston became. Anyone expecting to fly from Hawkinge and get a clear run is being very optimistic.

So, complaining about poor Ack and strafing not being historical is not entirely correct and these are in any case examples of what cannot be avoided on a public server where everyone comes and goes as they like.

Another thing, I don't know if you do zapatista but anyone flying alone is absolutely 'unhistorical', they would never have done that back then. So, fake? Well if it is it's only because people do it! Also RAF units were frequently already flying when their airfields were attacked (not always of course). So its impossible to create a historical public server where people just come and go, fly on their own and then cry 'foul' because it isn't like the BoB. The closest you may get is to fly with a Squadron from a field not being attacked and attempt the mission objectives.

It is what it is and if ATAG can't reproduce strictly historical defences and if its boring then I can only suggest, with the best intentions, that you do try doing something different, like teaming up (ATAG have a TS server), use an inland airfield and searching for the Blues who are increasingly going for their objectives (and ignore the few that really do vulch). Its just a shame the radar doesn't work better so we could intercept those dastardly blues that fly low and hit their objectives.

Many many other posts I could reply to but the answer to most is generally in the previous paragraph.

Regarding CoD Reds not bothering to go to France and always circling the same fields, that's because:
a) the theme of the BoB was to defend against Bombers coming to England (they never had time to go to France and take on those huge bomber and 109 formations although 56 do in CoD to intercept the bombers early..... because we know they will have no escorts)
and
b) we know that's where most Blues are coming to most of the time and we do sometimes get ... ahem.... sucked into the dogfights.

EDIT: And ATAG are trying some new ideas with missions being called up by the players.

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by klem

I do notice there is quite a lot of flak at ATAG RAF fields but it isn't very effective (a CoD issue not a mission design issue I think). And the RL Ack at Tangmere didn't do much good when the Stukas arrived on 16th August 1940 although I think about 9 or 10 were shot down by Spitfires and Hurricanes.

Also amusing is that whilst it was Manston that was hit the hardest and most often including 109 strafing attacks (it happened to Deere when he was landing there) until it was eventually abandoned for operations, it doesn't happen much on ATAG, those lazy Blues take the short route to Hawkinge. Realistic? To some extent yes. Hawkinge is CoD's Manston and is almost unuseable on some nights, just like Manston became. Anyone expecting to fly from Hawkinge and get a clear run is being very optimistic.

So, complaining about poor Ack and strafing not being historical is not entirely correct and these are in any case examples of what cannot be avoided on a public server where everyone comes and goes as they like.

Another thing, I don't know if you do zapatista but anyone flying alone is absolutely 'unhistorical', they would never have done that back then. So, fake? Well if it is it's only because people do it! Also RAF units were frequently already flying when their airfields were attacked (not always of course). So its impossible to create a historical public server where people just come and go, fly on their own and then cry 'foul' because it isn't like the BoB. The closest you may get is to fly with a Squadron from a field not being attacked and attempt the mission objectives.

It is what it is and if ATAG can't reproduce strictly historical defences and if its boring then I can only suggest, with the best intentions, that you do try doing something different, like teaming up (ATAG have a TS server), use an inland airfield and searching for the Blues who are increasingly going for their objectives (and ignore the few that really do vulch). Its just a shame the radar doesn't work better so we could intercept those dastardly blues that fly low and hit their objectives.

Many many other posts I could reply to but the answer to most is generally in the previous paragraph.

Regarding CoD Reds not bothering to go to France and always circling the same fields, that's because:
a) the theme of the BoB was to defend against Bombers coming to England (they never had time to go to France and take on those huge bomber and 109 formations although 56 do in CoD to intercept the bombers early..... because we know they will have no escorts)
and
b) we know that's where most Blues are coming to most of the time and we do sometimes get ... ahem.... sucked into the dogfights.

Logic, reason, and level-headedness? I don't think you're allowed to do that, sir.

I'm going to have to write you a citation for this.

[ATAG_Doc]

Good post klem. Would like to note the unhistorical significance of having 20+ RAF airborne and only a handful of them on coms.

Or a squad on a second and reachable TS server without having to disconnect and go look it up then connect to it while in the middle of a mission.

What is it about the exclusiveness that is so important that makes your mates so insignificant?

I wish Hugh Dowding was alive today to give his opinion about this. Demand historical!

But only to a point.

[klem]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Doc

Good post klem. Would like to note the unhistorical significance of having 20+ RAF airborne and only a handful of them on coms.

Or a squad on a second and reachable TS server without having to disconnect and go look it up then connect to it while in the middle of a mission.

What is it about the exclusiveness that is so important that makes your mates so insignificant?

I wish Hugh Dowding was alive today to give his opinion about this. Demand historical!

But only to a point.

"What is it about the exclusiveness that is so important that makes your mates so insignificant?" ??

I don't understand.

[AbortedMan]

Originally Posted by klem

"What is it about the exclusiveness that is so important that makes your mates so insignificant?" ??

I don't understand.

Just ignore it Klem, the ATAG are rabid today.