Fultures!

[ATAG_Bliss]

Originally Posted by Force10

LOL. On the one hand, folks are always talking about trying to get more people involved in simming, on the other hand, they happily strafe noobs on the runway and when they come here complaining about it, we call them "slow" and suggest that combat sims maybe aren't for them.

senseispcc: The best course of action is to just stay off of ATAG's servers. Things like "honor" and "chivalry" are terms that are lost on these guys and boosting their kills on a leaderboard is all they care about. And most surely don't donate any money to their server.

I'm not trying to get more people involved with simming. People either like it or they don't. What I don't understand is the very basics of people complaining about their own bad decisions. I guess people always like to pass the buck.

And what are you talking about honor and chivalry? This is a video game. If people are going to whine and complain about being shot down while playing a video game, I'm going to take a wild guess and say they need to step away from their PCs for a bit. If you are an enemy, in the air or on the ground, you are a valid target. It's pretty simple. One would think it's even more simple to look at the map, location of objectives, read the briefing etc., and realize if you spawn near the front, there's probably a good chance of enemies around. I wouldn't think it would take a rocket scientist to figure this one out. And I don't know any person that's a stats whore. Heck the stats are reset all the time anyways. I'm sure there are other squads out there that probably wear the uniform while they play and deal with ranks and weird shit like that, but we're just about having fun. We realize it's a video game.

I remember one guy on coms, can't remember what his name was, but he was crying about getting vulched while taking off in a blenny. I asked what base he was taking off from and sure enough it was the blenny base right near the front lines. Then I asked him why he wouldn't take off from another airfield inland, his response was he didn't want to have to fly that far. Now mind you, this guy pulled me away from flying to bitch about this, something as simple as spawning from a different airfield which he wouldn't do. Then he has the gall to tell me it's the mission's fault. That's when you throw up your hands and just laugh. People want to be able to get in the action fast, but if they happen to get shot down because they made the decision to spawn where the action is, all they want to do is complain.

Hopefully those types will finally just move on to some other game or some other server that suits their needs / forces them to take the critical thinking part of where to spawn etc. I know plenty of people that enjoy the game, enjoy spawning in the front lines, and enjoy the fact they may get shot at on the ground because of it. What I enjoy most is I have the right to choose to spawn inland where I know I'll never get attacked on the ground or have the choice to spawn near the front lines where there's a good chance I will get attacked. Either way, I'll enjoy it. Video games are recreation to me.

I think senseispcc's problem/anger comes from the fact that he plays SP. In SP you basically know what's going to happen, you have control over when the mission starts, how you can fly, where you can meet the objectives/flight groups etc. When you join a dynamic environment online, all that control is lost. Anything and everything can happen at any time. Your tactics revolve around the current situation which can only really be known by those flying together and talking. So you spawn right in the nearest airfield and without a doubt someone saw you and strafed the crap out of you for it. I think stuff like this is why SP folks won't play MP and MP folks don't play SP. I like the dynamic ever changing environment, not knowing what's going to happen, where the enemies are, etc., is the best part. While in SP it's kinda the opposite.

[AbortedMan]

Everyone that is ok with vulching seems to forget that vulching sucks a large percentage of players into that area of the mission, often leaving people that are smart enough to not bother with the "airquake condition" completely alone to shoot at AI bombers...and that's pretty boring.

When vulching happens, the Blue's are hanging around Hawkinge looking for easy kills, the Red's know this and either attempt a take-off from Hawkinge to get into a quick fight, or get a tad bit smarter and spawn at a further airbase only to head to Hawkinge because they know that's where the Blue's are. This further exacerbates the problem. This giant wonderfully complex and detailed mission on this GIANT wonderfully complex map suddenly gets pigeonholed into a square mile of frustration.

Yes it's a stupid result of people being stupid OR making bad choices, but it's what is going to happen over and over...because people are stupid and/OR make bad choices. It's not that I'm trying to criticize or degrade "people" but I simply cannot use any other word to describe them.

The "airquake condition" can be dealt with and fixed, or it can be ignored advertised as a beneficial part of a server's assets.

ATAG's choice. I think they're shooting themselves in the foot, IMO. They hold the balance of this game's online community in their hands, and I feel the stage they're setting for themselves is getting volatile very quickly.

BTW, With the current base configuration over in England, simply spawning at another base is not a solution. Red have three general areas to spawn from, Hawkinge/Lympne and Ramsgate/Manston...both pairs close enough to each other to be considered *one* strafable area to a vulture...and Eastchurch which leaves Red little choice but to navigate over the hotspots I just mentioned to get into theater. Blue, on the other hand, has so many bases strewn across the coast and inland that I cannot even read most of them on the map unless I zoom in to the maximum...that alone negates many vulture attempts, but not before Red is shot down by the extremely dense 5x5 *GRIDS* (wtf!??!?!) of AAA.

A friend and I once logged onto the server to fly some sorties...there were 4 Reds including us and about 7 blue. We spawn at Hawkinge since we thought it would be quiet due to low population...nope. Four 109's in the air and on us before we hit 200mph. Ok fair game, our fault..."it's Hawkinge." I thought. So we move to Manston, start warming up, roll down the runway, and wheels up...BAM! Black screen. Killed by a 109 pilot...one of the same four from Hawkinge. See the trend here? What's the solution for that?

EDIT: Wait, I got it...I know the solution. I'm just gonna start flyin blue. I paid for the game just like everyone else, I have every right to play it just as everyone else does and won't be hamstrung by bad decisions.

[Force10]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Bliss

And what are you talking about honor and chivalry? This is a video game. If people are going to whine and complain about being shot down while playing a video game, I'm going to take a wild guess and say they need to step away from their PCs for a bit.

Question: How can you complain about being shot down when you never get off the ground?

Originally Posted by ATAG_Bliss

where you can meet the objectives/flight groups etc. When you join a dynamic environment online, all that control is lost.

This sums up perfectly the problem with ATAG

Originally Posted by AbortedMan

This giant wonderfully complex and detailed mission on this GIANT wonderfully complex map suddenly gets pigeonholed into a square mile of frustration.

What the hell is dynamic about the same vulchers looking for easy pickens around Hawkinge? You need to look up "dynamic" in the dictionary Bliss.

Actually, if you read Aborted mans whole post it sums up why ATAG is more or less rediculous. We all know you are dead set against co-ops Bliss, I'm guessing you are a former quake player and like the predictability of what happens on the ATAG server?

[ATAG_Bliss]

Originally Posted by Force10

Question: How can you complain about being shot down when you never get off the ground?



This sums up perfectly the problem with ATAG



What the hell is dynamic about the same vulchers looking for easy pickens around Hawkinge? You need to look up "dynamic" in the dictionary Bliss.

Actually, if you read Aborted mans whole post it sums up why ATAG is more or less rediculous. We all know you are dead set against co-ops Bliss, I'm guessing you are a former quake player and like the predictability of what happens on the ATAG server?

You've nailed it perfectly.

If I only had one wish, it would be those that seem to know how to do it "right" and create a non-r"e"diculous server would stop being so shy and come out and do it. Watching the people that truly know how to do this sort of thing, just sitting in the back ground with such a vast knowledge of mission building and how to do it right, without stepping up to the plate is frustrating. I hope for the day when the loudest voices - the obvious one's that really know how to build those perfect missions come out and show us people with 1000's of hours building missions how it's done right.

Please please show us the way. Obviously the ATAG server is complete garbage and so are the missions.

Sincerely,

A dedicated airquake, non-historic, garbage server owner that doesn't know anything.

Thanks.

[Jaws2002]

What's with al this crybabies taking shots at ATAG like tey owe you something?
Aren't you fools forgeting that, without the guys from ATAG, tying so hard to keep a solid server runing great, while the game was close to garbage, this game would have been dead vor a long time. At least the online part of it.
ATAG server, and the people working hard to keep it runing , with the endless stream of bugs, from patch to patch, is in large part the reason you have an online community still active.

Vulching is part of the air wars, and it is part of the game. Get used to it. Front line bases were always visited by enemy planes. The Russian airforce was basically raped on the ground at the begining of the war. The il2's were constantly attacking enemy airfields troughout the war.
After ten minutes of warm up and 20 minutes flight in a bomber, when I get close to the enemy targets, if I have escorting fighters, I'll always ask them to try to suppress the airfield close to the target until we get the bombs out. That means shooting at anyone that even thinks about taking a plane up to interfere with our mission.
On ATAG there are plenty of bases away from the action, to take off without any danger.
I thought this was common sense by now, after so many years of online playing.
No matter what flying online game you play, it's always been this way.

[Sternjaeger II]

I suppose that if the enjoyment of your simming experience reduces itself to vulching, then you really got into the wrong genre.

Sure, it's a laugh every now and then, but if it becomes a habit, then it's only a counterproductive attitude that will push people away. Where's the fun in that anyway? There's no fair measure in a dogfight or by using a better tactic, it's just coming down on someone who's in the most vulnerable position and maybe struggled all the way back after a mission and is looking forward to a good landing..

I refrain from joining servers that allow vulching, simply because you know it's gonna end up in a puerile airquake..

[julien673]

Only add some flak ....

Damaged enemy aircraft over the air base is always priceless... B)

[Force10]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Bliss

You've nailed it perfectly.

If I only had one wish, it would be those that seem to know how to do it "right" and create a non-r"e"diculous server would stop being so shy and come out and do it. Watching the people that truly know how to do this sort of thing, just sitting in the back ground with such a vast knowledge of mission building and how to do it right, without stepping up to the plate is frustrating. I hope for the day when the loudest voices - the obvious one's that really know how to build those perfect missions come out and show us people with 1000's of hours building missions how it's done right.

Please please show us the way. Obviously the ATAG server is complete garbage and so are the missions.

Sincerely,

A dedicated airquake, non-historic, garbage server owner that doesn't know anything.

Thanks.

The only reason I'm being critical Bliss is because you were so vocal against a more intuitive co-op gui. You stated you "hate" co-op style of play, and therefore would like to "pigeon-hole" everyone to your style of play. So it's pretty clear you will never have that sort of thing on your server and that's fine since it's yours. But trying to stifle a legitiment style of play and a requested feature because you hate co-op, isn't helping the sim expand to online squads that have been waiting for this.

[AbortedMan]

The argument isn't about "I'm being vulched, this sucks!"

Vulching negates an entire mission by attracting lesser attentive players to one area. One single small area...which in turn ruins combat for the strategy-minded players because a server with 40+, hell, even 10+, should be chock-full of fighter formations roaming about the map and completing objectives (that you as a mission builder worked so hard on) is now a desolate and barren wasteland of blue.

You naysayers can't deny the negative effect on gameplay a majority of a team hovering around a single base has, whether it's a "valid" style of gameplay or not, it's detrimental to the majority. Spawning at another base to get away from the threat while taking off doesn't fix anything, because EVERYONE needs to do it, but that will never happen...stop dreaming that it will. Yes, you and I see the solution, but the major public does not, and never will. Besides, they'll spawn at the other base and head straight to the vulched base. Happens every time.

[Toni74]

Originally Posted by AbortedMan

(...)When vulching happens, the Blue's are hanging around Hawkinge looking for easy kills, the Red's know this and either attempt a take-off from Hawkinge to get into a quick fight, or get a tad bit smarter and spawn at a further airbase only to head to Hawkinge because they know that's where the Blue's are.(...)

lol. of course only the blue ones do vulching.