Stability and Control characteristics of the Early Mark Spitfires

[NZtyphoon]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

Why don't your read Morgan and Shacklady. They have a list of the serial numbers and known fates of many of the Spitfires.

They even have pictures of the remains of some of the aircraft that shed wings during high speed maneuvering.

Are you going to make me scan them or can you just pick up the book and read it?

In fact it's much easier going through http://www.spitfires.ukf.net/ which is better researched and better laid out, and more accessible, then M & S.

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

Infact it's the entire picture... they says those were the accidents reported to them... it's only a speculation that they were the only accidents during all the war as you said since:

1) Was the AAIB the only one actually called to investigate on accidents?
2) How many accidents were not reported?
3) We don't know the AAIB method of investigation: did they need the wreck?... or they could investigate by interviews with the witnesses of the accident?
4) As you says, I repeat, I can be that some accidents not reported as result of a past investigation. A plane is losing its wings during recovery from a dive? The first accident of this kind required an investigation, probably also the second one... but how many until it's clear that the plane can be pull so much and it become ?

1) The body responsible for investigating air accidents before and during WW2 was the AIB (Accidents Investigation Branch) which was responsible for investigating all air accidents. http://www.aaib.gov.uk/about_us/history.cfm
2) Why bother speculating on a question which can never be answered? It's like asking how long is a piece of string.
3) Presumably whatever was available - if a wreck was at the bottom of the sea AIB would not have gone chasing after it.
4)Again, unquantifiable speculation

[bongodriver]

1) Was the AAIB the only one actually called to investigate on accidents?
2) How many accidents were not reported?
3) We don't know the AAIB method of investigation: did they need the wreckage?... or they could investigate by interviews with the witnesses of the accident?
4) As you says, I repeat, I can be that some accidents not reported as result of a past investigation. A plane is losing its wings during recovery from a dive? The first accident of this kind required an investigation, probably also the second one... but how many until it's clear that the plane can be pull so much and it become ?

1) in all probability yes....it's their job, why call in people who aren't qualified?
2) probably a very small amount, in all likelyhood just the events which lead to MIA and unknown fates.
3) as long as the methods produced the answer does it matter?
4) let's not forget that most Spitfire pilots were flying with a squadron and the squadron pilots are all credible eye witnesses to what happens, through all of the recounted stories and biographies etc nobody ever mentioned the Spitfire as being 'particularily' weak or seeing squad mates breaking up with any regularity.

[6S.Manu]

Thks for the answers.

Originally Posted by NZtyphoon

1) The body responsible for investigating air accidents before and during WW2 was the AIB (Accidents Investigation Branch) which was responsible for investigating all air accidents. http://www.aaib.gov.uk/about_us/history.cfm
2) Why bother speculating on a question which can never be answered? It's like asking how long is a piece of string.
3) Presumably whatever was available - if a wreck was at the bottom of the sea AIB would not have gone chasing after it.
4)Again, unquantifiable speculation

Originally Posted by bongodriver

1) in all probability yes....it's their job, why call in people who aren't qualified?
2) probably a very small amount, in all likelyhood just the events which lead to MIA and unknown fates.
3) as long as the methods produced the answer does it matter?
4) let's not forget that most Spitfire pilots were flying with a squadron and the squadron pilots are all credible eye witnesses to what happens, through all of the recounted stories and biographies etc nobody ever mentioned the Spitfire as being 'particularily' weak or seeing squad mates breaking up with any regularity.

1) I looked in the website but I asked because it's not written that's the only responsable of investigation but it's part of the entire Department.

A Department could delegate some accidents to a company and other crashes to another: my doubt is the existence of another qualified company during that time... it's a natural to make use of external help (the AAIB was indipendent) during difficult times. So is it sure that the RAF had not a internal investigation departement and AAIB was the only responsable? Could it be that it was responsable for the accidents in a determined territory (England)?

2) & 3) I ask because of the possibility of not investigated accidents regarding structural failure: if so the Mr.Newton's numbers posted by Glider are far less interesting: as I said, since those were only accidents with a defined wreckage, how many more planes went down for structural failure over the sea (the channel, Malta ect)?
I think an investigation would always require witnesses... my question was if there would be an investigation at all in case of no wreckage.

4) Bongo, I know... infact I expect that the loss of the wings was a rare accident: I think more of a not critically damaged airframe for which, I think to have read somewhere, the plane had to be partially rebuild... could a plane with partial airframe damage have the same performance? Does its manouvrability and stability remain the same? Because IMO in combat area easily a damaged plane would be taken down by the enemy...

I know it's speculation, but not useless IMO. To have the complete picture we need to be sure of these things, otherwise there is no absolute truth.