The "Rudder issue" in the new Beta

[IvanK]

The 1/3 - 1/2 range is just a very generic "pluck" on my part. Stormcrow you are 100% correct that it will vary from type to type and with power and speed as well. Given its actually the yaw itself and yaw rate versus all the other opposing couples that cause this secondary effect of yaw and how apparent it is.

As to the BF109 elevator. Initially it did feel a little sensitive post patch. I adjusted the sensitivity settings externally in my joystick software and so far so good.

WRT to sensitivity settings I set all the sliders in game to 0. I then adjust values in Joystick software ... CH Manager in my case. I found that this gives better results.

[Crumpp]

What about the stall characteristics of the Beta Bf-109? Would you be kind enough to post some data on entry speeds and behaviors?

[IvanK]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

What about the stall characteristics of the Beta Bf-109? Would you be kind enough to post some data on entry speeds and behaviors?

What does that have to do with this thread ??? We are trying to discuss the Rudder and secondary effect of yaw. If you want to discuss BF109 Stall characteristics how about testing yourself and starting a new thread to discuss that ?

[David198502]

Originally Posted by IvanK

The 1/3 - 1/2 range is just a very generic "pluck" on my part. Stormcrow you are 100% correct that it will vary from type to type and with power and speed as well. Given its actually the yaw itself and yaw rate versus all the other opposing couples that cause this secondary effect of yaw and how apparent it is.

As to the BF109 elevator. Initially it did feel a little sensitive post patch. I adjusted the sensitivity settings externally in my joystick software and so far so good.

WRT to sensitivity settings I set all the sliders in game to 0. I then adjust values in Joystick software ... CH Manager in my case. I found that this gives better results.

well ok, but adjusting the sensitivity settings is kind of manipulating the FM in my view...isnt it??
i would think, that if you dont have any sensitivity applied, then its direct input, and therefore the representation of what the devs consider as the realistic FM...(correct me if im wrong!)

and now with the current patch, its really hard to aim and make precise adjustments with sensitivity set to 0.if you make a small movement on the stick, the plane hardly reacts at all, and if you move the stick a tad further, then the plane will react with a big "jump",affecting both the elevators and ailerons.

btw IvanK, what sensitivity settings do you use in CH manager?what do you consider as a realistic behaviour?

[IvanK]

Originally Posted by David198502

[/B]


well ok, but adjusting the sensitivity settings is kind of manipulating the FM in my view...isnt it??
i would think, that if you dont have any sensitivity applied, then its direct input, and therefore the representation of what the devs consider as the realistic FM...(correct me if im wrong!)

and now with the current patch, its really hard to aim and make precise adjustments with sensitivity set to 0.if you make a small movement on the stick, the plane hardly reacts at all, and if you move the stick a tad further, then the plane will react with a big "jump",affecting both the elevators and ailerons.

btw IvanK, what sensitivity settings do you use in CH manager?what do you consider as a realistic behaviour?

I understand your point about adjusting sensitivity v FM etc but on on the other hand we are all using different input devices with different inherent characteristics as well, also we are primarily discussing the rudder yaw issue .... but to answer your question:


As to my setup I run CH stick with Ivankuturkokoffrubberband mod as well. This allows you to increase the stick ressistance which for me is too low on CH sticks. I am running 3 rubber bands in Pitch and 2 rubber bands in roll. Anyway in Pitch I have CH dead zone set to 3, Sensitivity set to 100, and Gain set 2 clicks (top button) from linear.

As to being realistic ... well its just a gut feeling of what seems to work for me in the Sim nothing else. As to what the Devs have done being realistic well I am not so sure. The Hurricane is a case in point it exhibits a specific "notch" in pitch close to the neutral zone .... that for instance I wouldn't consider realistic.

In the Rudder axis I have zero sensitivity adjustment at the moment. Using Saitek pedals all you can adjust in Saitek software is Dead zone.

[DC338]

Also David Note that different sticks have different throws. i.e different lengths, especially when compared to the actual aircraft. These adjustments help to adjust for the fact that you don't have as long a control column as you do in the real aircraft.

Back to the rudder talk.

[Crumpp]

What does that have to do with this thread ???

Christ....

For one thing, you use the rudder to walk the wing down in a stall in a real aircraft. For example, my aircraft will drop ~30 degrees of left wing the moment it stalls. That can be controlled and the wing held almost level with proper use of the rudder.

You think the roll coupling might be important???

Secondly, the stall being co-ordinated by the rudder or not co-ordinated has an effect on the characteristics.

Beta Bf-109

I don't have beta....

You know what, to hell with you. You are on my ignore list.

[IvanK]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

Christ....

For one thing, you use the rudder to walk the wing down in a stall in a real aircraft. For example, my aircraft will drop ~30 degrees of left wing the moment it stalls. That can be controlled and the wing held almost level with proper use of the rudder.

You think the roll coupling might be important???

Secondly, the stall being co-ordinated by the rudder or not co-ordinated has an effect on the characteristics.



I don't have beta....

You know what, to hell with you. You are on my ignore list.

Good O that will save every body a lot of grief. Might be a good idea if you are going to enter threads about the beta to actually have it installed.

Now following on... you dont " ..... use the rudder to walk the wing down in a stall in a real aircraft" .... At the stall Rudder is used to prevent further yaw ! that I think you will find is what most pilots are actually taught. Since you regularly quote FAA stuff have a read of Page 4-5 and 4-6 of the current FAA Airplane Flying Handbook and their description of rudder use in the stall... its in the paragraph headed "Use of Ailerons/Rudder in Stall recovery".

Roll coupling ... yes I do think its important At least one aeroplane I have flown had specific limitations to keep the pilot out of it ... less they destroy it or loose total control.