To Oleg or Luthier: 4.09 / mods question

[LEXX]

Falke, I don't think Bear said we have to accept unauthorized mods in our sims. But I can see how we have to accept the visible fact that the modding is there -and- the fact that it won't go away.

I don't think Bear ever said "falke" has to or is required to like unauthorized modding. Shucks, Oleg probably doesn't like it. Granted, it is said on the forums that Oleg knew about the hack several years ago, yet he did not prevent the hack from becoming widely used after the end of the sim's development.


Falke::

Well, Bearcat posted we have to accept it, because it's there and won't go away.
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What strikes me is the argumentation, though. Just because something is there doesn't mean we have to like it.

[Feuerfalke]

Then I even less understand why there's so much fuzz about it? If it's just to accept it's there, well, we wouldn't discuss here, if we didn't know, so that can't be the goal.

So, just for my slow personal understanding: Is this to advertise on the existence of the mods? Well, if that's the case, then this thread is by far the poorest way to do so IMHO.
People who are interested in modding the game won't need much help to click the various links on www.google.de


But either way, I think it's a bad choice to discuss this HERE. IMHO this campaign is like advertising on alcohol or cigarettes on a blue-cross-site. Sure you may find some people interested, but you piss off a lot of other people (as you can see in this thread) and it's the best way to not show respect towards the people who made the game and maintain this forum. And even in Bearcats post above, intentionally or not, it's very easy to understand like "look what the mods have done, what MG didn't do for years" and that attitude won't help anybody, including mod-makers, MG, the community or BoB.

Even what you just posted, Lexx, that MG knew about the crack and didn't intervene is easily seen as a bad support for this game, incompetence from MG and 1C to handle such a situation and act accordingly. And after all the stuff that was given to us for free, is that really your message?


Again, just to make that perfectly clear: I am not against the mods themselves, but against the way it is discussed and promoted. IMHO the old words "The end justifies the means." completely backfires on the Mods, 1C and BoB the longer this discussion goes. And THAT is the only point to this discussion, because it failed on anything else, the moment this was posted on the publishers site.

[LEXX]

Falke::

Even what you just posted, Lexx, that MG knew about the crack and didn't intervene is easily seen as a bad support for this game, incompetence from MG and 1C to handle such a situation and act accordingly. And after all the stuff that was given to us for free, is that really your message?

I'm not sure. Its something that I read on the forums so your guess or conspiracy theory is as good as anybody's. You will have to go back to re-read what I poasted before quoting me again at this forum. That seems to be a behavioral problem you are having with others as well, at least in this thread, and leaves others wondering what your "message" is.

[Feuerfalke]

Originally Posted by LEXX

Falke::
I'm not sure. Its something that I read on the forums so your guess or conspiracy theory is as good as anybody's. You will have to go back to re-read what I poasted before quoting me again at this forum. That seems to be a behavioral problem you are having with others as well, at least in this thread, and leaves others wondering what your "message" is.

Your Quote from a page before: "Granted, it is said on the forums that Oleg knew about the hack several years ago, yet he did not prevent the hack from becoming widely used after the end of the sim's development."

As I said, it's not that difficult to interpret this comment as a direct critics on Oleg and his lack of ability to do something against it. I don't think you wrote that due to my behavioral problems? You surely had a message and I just asked myself what message was and how people interpret messages like that, quoted or originally written by yourself.

[LEXX]

Falke::

As I said, it's not that difficult to interpret this comment as a direct critics on Oleg and his lack of ability to do something against it. I don't think you wrote that due to my behavioral problems? You surely had a message and I just asked myself what message was and how people interpret messages like that, quoted or originally written by yourself.

There are other interpretations. The most comedic was made by hysterical anti-mod anonymous public server players at the unmoderated ubi forums claiming that Oleg allowed the hack mods to "kill" FB to push customers to BoB And Beyond.

I found it funny since it would theoretically push a small minority of anonymous public server people to the new sim, leaving the private server players and the larger offline customer base to enjoy FB modding. The claim doesn't make sense, unless FB is purely an Online Pay-To-Play sim with no independent private servers. But then, these hysterical anonymous public server players always considered FB to be a pure Online sim with no independent private servers. So the claim *does* make sense when viewed with that fogged perspective.

[Feuerfalke]

Originally Posted by LEXX

Falke::
There are other interpretations. The most comedic was made by hysterical anti-mod anonymous public server players at the unmoderated ubi forums claiming that Oleg allowed the hack mods to "kill" FB to push customers to BoB And Beyond.

I found it funny since it would theoretically push a small minority of anonymous public server people to the new sim, leaving the private server players and the larger offline customer base to enjoy FB modding. The claim doesn't make sense, unless FB is purely an Online Pay-To-Play sim with no independent private servers. But then, these hysterical anonymous public server players always considered FB to be a pure Online sim with no independent private servers. So the claim *does* make sense when viewed with that fogged perspective.

Agreed, that's funny indeed and equally pointless.

[LEXX]

I won't say it was pointless. Fruitless yes, obviously.

The Simhq FB forum restricted hackmod discussion to one (1) thread. Maybe that would be a working compromise here. I don't have membership on any modding forums, but obviously I enjoy poasting about Mod Theory.

[Feuerfalke]

Well, I think it's okay for SimHQ and there are a lot of other forums, where these things are not banned any longer. People who are interested in that will find it and that's okay with me.

On the other hand, you may call me an old-schooler, but to me it is a question of respect to not discuss mods on the official boards.

[Pike]

Well, Like it or not it has certainly breathed new life into an older Sim and I suspect it will continue for some time yet.
One point though.....I think that given Oleg's resources and time constraints....now we have people all over the world simultaneously producing new maps etc which Oleg's team would have neither the time, people nor money to do in such a short timespan. I'm sure if he could have done them he would have eventually. If I were him I would just be quietly contented about my achievements and legacy......I can see one day in the future when there will be statues dedicated to him as the founder of modern flight sims if his work continues at this quality and rate.
I also don't quite understand the view on cheating, because you only play with your friends whom, I would have thought, would have no wish to cheat you. So any 'cheaters' would end up banned and with no-one to play with anyway.
Best regards,
Pike.

[Feuerfalke]

Nice words but ...

a) Oleg IS quit about it for a lot longer than the mod-promoters are

b) cheaters get only banned if they're caught, but there were never before as many accusations of cheating against other players. How do you decide who's wrong and who's right?

IMHO the mods are not the danger, even the few cheats are not, but the idea that your opponent just shot you down because he cheated and nobody does anything against it, THAT is the real danger, not only for IL2, but beyond.