To Oleg or Luthier: 4.09 / mods question

[leitmotiv]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

The mods are not clandestine... they are being done in the open... and as I said.. there may be some not so good stuff in there.. but what I have seen and experienced has been well done and beneficial.. from the toned down dust to the toned down nav lights, the flyable AI AC... The way I see it.. if I could use Pe-8s to simulate B-17s in IL2... which we did.. then using B-25 cockpits for B-17s is not as much of a stretch... and while I still understand how many feel about the way the mods originally came about as I have said from day one.. and it has proven true. These mods are here.. and they aren't going anywhere.

Just for the record... I have tried the mods in case anyone failed to read between the lines.. and I am glad that I waited as long as I did.. I felt that I had to see how all this would pan out before i put my toe in that water... but I have sen no crocks, no fins floating in the water.... no little brown logs and no yellow water... so I jumped in and having tried them I have no regrets. I watched and read at the AAA site for months.. just to see where this was all going... and again.. as I said in this thread.. there has not been rampant cheating .. the sim is not "ruined" and frankly I think that the sim will actually benefit in the long run. There are still new folks coming to UBI every day.




Well if you think I am the only mod who has tried the mods then you are.... naive.





I totally disagree with that. That statement is assuming the worse.. which the entire anti mod camp myself included at one time did. We assumed that because the sim was hacked that that spelled it's demise and we assumed that all the negative things about mods would be at the forefront and none of the positives... and yes... again... it was not official.. but if i said it once I have said it a thousand times... these mods are not going away ... and not only that... we were flat out wrong... the sky has not fallen in, the sim is not ruined... I am sure Olegs pocket is still getting fatter from 46... The current attitude is just as silly as not recognizing Israel's right to exist by some arab nations... IT EXISTS... and it isnt going anywhere.. and neither are these mods. The enhancements to the QMB, the new maps... that Italy Africa Greece map is a thing of beauty... To toally concentrate on the negatives of the whole issue.. and not the positives..... is naive IMO. Perhaps in 3 or 4 years or who knows 3 0r 4 months , widespread hacks will roam the virtual skies of 1946... and the sim will be ruined.. but it hasn't happened yet.. and frankly.... I will enjoy what I have..... all of it... and I have not taken any money out of Oleg's pocket... people talk about "stealing from the developer".. but I bought my sim... more times than many folks here......... It is a great sim.. still and it has been enhanced by these mods. That's a fact.... and it isn't because of any kind of psychobabble nonsense.. it is because some of those mods are just [really really good.... and we need to get past this.. and move on. Drink the kool aid.. or don't... but don't hate the pitcher.. because it ain't going away. I cant wait for BoB to come out.... I know it will be the best thing smoking.. but in the mean time I am going to enjoy all of 1946 that I can get.. and if another add ion on this engine were to come out.. I'd buy that too.... in the meantime. I am flying what is available to me now..... all of it that appeals to me..... as often as I can.

WOHEEE!!! Go Bearcat---all your analogies are on target, and your logic is on target. The Israel analogy is brilliant!!!! Prometheus---wowwwwww!!!!!!

[proton45]

Originally Posted by leitmotiv

WOHEEE!!! Go Bearcat---all your analogies are on target, and your logic is on target. The Israel analogy is brilliant!!!! Prometheus---wowwwwww!!!!!!

He joined the "dark side", not with a whimper but with a bang! ...strutting with attitude and swagger (LOL)...

(Now I may have to check them out too...LOL)

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by proton45

He joined the "dark side", not with a whimper but with a bang! ...strutting with attitude and swagger (LOL)...

(Now I may have to check them out too...LOL)

No attitude & swagger.. just a hard shot of reality. I havent tied all thos emods.. but the ones I did try were well done. Had that not been so , had all of them been crappy hacks.. I really dont think they would have taken off. Thin about it.. do you really think that the same sim community that gave Oleg hell ove improper gauges and load outs would tolerate really slip shod mods? I don't think so.. Granted Oleg & 1C probably could have done a lot of this better.. but I just cant believe that these modders were able to do things that 1C couldnt. If 1C couldnt it was certainly not because of a lack of skill.. if these modders can do it.. 1C could have too... but perhaps it was contractural things or.. who knows.. but the bottom line is it is done.. and it aint bad. I don't know if Oleg has tried any of the mods.. out of curiosity... but I bet he wold be impressed by a few of them.

[Feuerfalke]

So what do you really want Bearcat?

Do you just want to advertise people, because you once were against these mods and are now enthusiastic all over?

Or do you want a general amnesty for the modders, so they can post and advertise their mods freely? Then look at this thread and that it was not locked, though there were even direct attacks against 1C and MG, because modders fixed things that they couldn't and even you mentioned this, no matter that you tried to make it look more friendly then some others, probably out of some rest of remaining respect?

Or do you want Oleg to officially accept and support the crack?


Don't get me wrong. As I posted a lot of times before, I really have respect for a lot of hard work put into this, but it is your message, that I can't take. Just because some people put a lot of effort in something to achieve things that you expected from official sides for years doesn't change the fact that it is all based upon an illegal crack and that a lot of people fell offended and irritated by these discussions.
If the MonaLisa was stolen from the Louvre, repainted in 3 years work, her fainted smile turned into a real one, her breasts upgraded and hair styled, reworked with modern techniques and published officially for free, would you think that's a good idea either, just because there was so much work put into it and it's now available for free?

Superficial equation, I know, but true in 2 things:
1. Something based on a bad thing isn't good because a lot of good people worked on it and some people like it.
2. The only sense this whole thread has is to keep this worn out topic on top of the list, but what you don't see is, that it damages your intentions a lot more than it could have ever helped to put this on THIS forums.

[LEXX]

FFalke::

So what do you really want Bearcat?

I have not bothered to ask Oleg to add "some" AAA mods to his sim, although I would think it a great idea from the narrow standpoint of customer immersion -- other real concerns aside. But then, I won't tell others not to ask either, unless they are snotty about it, and neither Bear nor Crash have been.

Falke: a friendly tip for webboard behavior -- You can read Bear's poasts if you wish to know what Bear "really wants."

The Mona Lisa parable is a howl, and easily worthy of computer gamer forums.

[Feuerfalke]

Well, Bearcat posted we have to accept it, because it's there and won't go away.

As you can see this thread still exists, so he's at least running in open doors. The pure fact that there is no official invitation to discuss these things here doesn't change that.

What strikes me is the argumentation, though. Just because something is there doesn't mean we have to like it.

[LEXX]

ElAurens, that was my attempt at humour -- like the quip "we are all keynesians now" often attributed to Nixon although some say Friedman originated this. After the fact, I can see how it could be none too obvious.

I see you still carry the burden of bitterness and are still Whining about me molding another sim we have been assuming you are not playing.

[LEXX]

Falke, I don't think Bear said we have to accept unauthorized mods in our sims. But I can see how we have to accept the visible fact that the modding is there -and- the fact that it won't go away.

I don't think Bear ever said "falke" has to or is required to like unauthorized modding. Shucks, Oleg probably doesn't like it. Granted, it is said on the forums that Oleg knew about the hack several years ago, yet he did not prevent the hack from becoming widely used after the end of the sim's development.


Falke::

Well, Bearcat posted we have to accept it, because it's there and won't go away.
:
:
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What strikes me is the argumentation, though. Just because something is there doesn't mean we have to like it.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Feuerfalke

So what do you really want Bearcat?

Me? I want to fly as much as I can.. I wish I had more time in the day...

As for you.. well you can do what you want to. All I am saying is that the debate or the conversation or whatever you want to call it needs to shift from "Oooo look at all the pretty mods." "But they are hacks and illegal" "Are not" "Are too" "ARE NOT" "ARE TOO" to either just enjoying the sim or thinking of other things that might make the sim better... IMO it is a meaningless point how you or anyone else feels about the mods... because they are here.

[Feuerfalke]

The points presented in this discussions are all valid.


The crack is illegal. That's a fact - no debate will change that.

The mods are not illegal in general, but they won't be officially supported and some of them use copyrighted material.

The mods are there, nobody will change that either.

The peoples opinions will always be different and that is not meaningless.


So, to help you out of this, the only way to stop this debate once and for all would be to let this thread die and discuss it somewhere else. As you put it, there are the ones who just enjoy this sim and there are those who enjoy the mods.
Accordingly there is a forum for the mods and official forums for the game. If you really insist to discuss the mods here amongst people who may not like it, will I have your support when I start a thread at the mod-boards where we all keep reminding ourselves that the crack is illegal? Wouldn't that support your idea, too?