Question

[FS~Phat]

Originally Posted by BlackSix

Maybe we finished it in May. But it does not mean that we should immediately release a patch with this elements.

I believe what Blacksix was trying to say was.

Even if we finished it in May it doesnt mean that we should immediately release a patch with only these elements fixed.
Which is perfectly reasonable. (confirmed by B6 below)

Originally Posted by BlackSix

Yes, that's my problem. I don't see any difference between these two phrases. They are translated into Russian the same.
Thanks Phat.

Guys please understand B6 is still learning english and a direct russian translation would lack some of the small important words that we take for granted.
Such as "if" and the context of a sentence can be completely lost in translation.

You guys have used Google to translate before and you know it does the same thing, sometimes it looses context by omitting important words or changing the order of words which has an effect on the meaning. (changing the S-V-O order can have an effect on the meaning in english)

A new english speaker often has this problem.

English and Russian language structure is generally Subject-Verb-Object but Russian language is a lot more flexible with the order, especially in more complex sentence structures.

For example, the sentence "A cat caught a mouse" can be translated into Russian in the following ways: All would be understood by a Russian native speaker to mean the same thing.

1) Кошка поймала мышь.
2) Мышь поймала кошка.
3) Поймала кошка мышь.
4) Кошка мышь поймала.
5) Мышь кошка поймала.
6) Поймала мышь кошка.

However, if we translate those same sentences back to English without an understanding of english (as google has kindly done below) you can see the meaning is completely different.

1) The cat caught the mouse.
2) The mouse has caught the cat.
3) I caught a mouse the cat.
4) The cat caught the mouse.
5) The cat caught the mouse.
6) I caught a mouse the cat.

So its not hard to see that this...
Maybe we finished it in May. But it does not mean that we should immediately release a patch with this elements.

Was probably meant as this...
Even if we finished it in May it doesnt mean that we should immediately release a patch with only these elements fixed.

So in the end we need to give B6 some slack and understanding that not everything he is trying to say will be interpreted the way he has intended.
A lot of you are always looking for the bad angle instead of trying to understand the intent given the translation from Russian to English.

Thanks for the effort B6 we appreciate your efforts especially given English is a new language for you. You are getting much better though so dont let this lot get to you!!

Here's another quick lesson on Russian and why its translations are sometimes perceived as blunt, direct or rude. Russian language doesnt need all the extra padding we use in English.

Some people say that the Russian language can be hard to learn. This is not really true, learning Russian is no harder than learning other languages. The main difficulty for a lot of people is learning the new grammar structure. If you have learnt other languages before you will already be familiar with some of these grammar concepts, such as gender and cases.

In fact, there are many things that make Russian easier to learn than other languages. The key is to use these things to your advantage. Here are some things that make Russian easier.

1. Once you learn the alphabet, you can pronounce almost all words quite accurately. With Russian the pronunciation is normally quite clear from the written form of the word.

2. Russian does not use complicated sentence structures like English. You can normally say exactly what you want with just a few words. For example, in English to be polite we would say something like “can you please pass me the salt”, however in Russian they would say something simpler like “give salt please”. Speaking so directly may even feel unusual for an English speaker, however it is perfectly normal, just add the word ‘please’ to be polite. This makes it easy to say what you want in Russian, and it will probably be correct. Less words also makes listening to people easier, as you can just pick out the important words.

3. Russian uses the case system. Instead of having a strict sentence word order like in English, you just need to change the ends of the nouns. This makes Russian a very expressive language, because you can emphasise a point by changing the order of the words in a sentence. It also helps you understand what people are trying to say.

4. Russian does not use articles. (Like “a” and “the”)

5. Russian has fewer tenses than English. Russian does not bother with the difference between “I was running”, “I had been running”, etc.

Cheers,
Phat.

[BlackSix]

Originally Posted by FS~Phat

So its not hard to see that this...
Maybe we finished it in May. But it does not mean that we should immediately release a patch with this elements.

Was probably meant as this...
Even if we finished it in May it doesnt mean that we should immediately release a patch with only these elements fixed.

Yes, that's my problem. I don't see any difference between these two phrases. They are translated into Russian the same.
Thanks Phat.

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by FS~Phat

I believe what Blacksix was trying to say was.

Even if we finished it in May it doesnt mean that we should immediately release a patch with only these elements fixed.
Which is perfectly reasonable.

Guys please understand B6 is still learning english and a direct russian translation would lack some of the small important words that we take for granted.
Such as "if" and the context of a sentence can be completely lost in translation.

You guys have used Google to translate before and you know it does the same thing, sometimes it looses context by omitting important words or changing the order of words which has an effect on the meaning. (changing the S-V-O order can have an effect on the meaning in english)

A new english speaker often has this problem.

English and Russian language structure is generally Subject-Verb-Object but Russian language is a lot more flexible with the order, especially in more complex sentence structures.

For example, the sentence "A cat caught a mouse" can be translated into Russian in the following ways: All would be understood by a Russian native speaker to mean the same thing.

1) Кошка поймала мышь.
2) Мышь поймала кошка.
3) Поймала кошка мышь.
4) Кошка мышь поймала.
5) Мышь кошка поймала.
6) Поймала мышь кошка.

However, if we translate those same sentences back to English without an understanding of english (as google has kindly done below) you can see the meaning is completely different.

1) The cat caught the mouse.
2) The mouse has caught the cat.
3) I caught a mouse the cat.
4) The cat caught the mouse.
5) The cat caught the mouse.
6) I caught a mouse the cat.

So its not hard to see that this...
Maybe we finished it in May. But it does not mean that we should immediately release a patch with this elements.

Was probably meant as this...
Even if we finished it in May it doesnt mean that we should immediately release a patch with only these elements fixed.

So in the end we need to give B6 some slack and understanding that not everything he is trying to say will be interpreted the way he has intended.
A lot of you are always looking for the bad angle instead of trying to understand the intent given the translation from Russian to English.

Thanks for the effort B6 we appreciate your efforts especially given English is a new language for you. You are getting much better though so dont let this lot get to you!!

Here's another quick lesson on Russian and why its translations are sometimes perceived as blunt, direct or rude. Russian language doesnt need all the extra padding we use in English.

Some people say that the Russian language can be hard to learn. This is not really true, learning Russian is no harder than learning other languages. The main difficulty for a lot of people is learning the new grammar structure. If you have learnt other languages before you will already be familiar with some of these grammar concepts, such as gender and cases.

In fact, there are many things that make Russian easier to learn than other languages. The key is to use these things to your advantage. Here are some things that make Russian easier.

1. Once you learn the alphabet, you can pronounce almost all words quite accurately. With Russian the pronunciation is normally quite clear from the written form of the word.

2. Russian does not use complicated sentence structures like English. You can normally say exactly what you want with just a few words. For example, in English to be polite we would say something like “can you please pass me the salt”, however in Russian they would say something simpler like “give salt please”. Speaking so directly may even feel unusual for an English speaker, however it is perfectly normal, just add the word ‘please’ to be polite. This makes it easy to say what you want in Russian, and it will probably be correct. Less words also makes listening to people easier, as you can just pick out the important words.

3. Russian uses the case system. Instead of having a strict sentence word order like in English, you just need to change the ends of the nouns. This makes Russian a very expressive language, because you can emphasise a point by changing the order of the words in a sentence. It also helps you understand what people are trying to say.

4. Russian does not use articles. (Like “a” and “the”)

5. Russian has fewer tenses than English. Russian does not bother with the difference between “I was running”, “I had been running”, etc.

Cheers,
Phat.

Good post thanks...

[SiThSpAwN]

Great post Phat, very informative, I could see why, in the position B6 is in, he would be wary of doing a lot of chatter on here due to the fear of it coming across wrong....

The honest fact is that if you look at the Russian forums, its not like they are getting a ton more info than us, the bottom line is we get all the information that is out there, at least 95%...

[Pudfark]

That makes a lot of sense Phat.
Thanx for posting the explain.
It should clear up some of the issues.

@B6
"You keep pitching and we will try to catch"
Thank You

[Volksieg]

Yep! A very illuminating post, Phat.

I've always been fascinated by the concept of psycholinguistics (How language constructs thought patterns and, thusly, culture) and I wonder whether cultural differences may play a part also... inasmuch as different cultures have different views on what is acceptable and what is not. I'm not speaking of such things as cultural taboos but more how one culture may be more accepting of delays, length of time needed to iron out problems etc... than others. Being Western, we have, for better or worse, grown used to having things how we want them, when we want them! Food for thought.

Doesn't mean I'm not annoyed at the state of Cliffs of Dover all of a sudden, mind, but it could explain the amount of rage on the forum at times.

When all is said and done... whether fanboy or critic... we are a right spoiled bunch really. lol

[FS~Phat]

Originally Posted by Volksieg

Yep! A very illuminating post, Phat.

I've always been fascinated by the concept of psycholinguistics (How language constructs thought patterns and, thusly, culture) and I wonder whether cultural differences may play a part also... inasmuch as different cultures have different views on what is acceptable and what is not. I'm not speaking of such things as cultural taboos but more how one culture may be more accepting of delays, length of time needed to iron out problems etc... than others. Being Western, we have, for better or worse, grown used to having things how we want them, when we want them! Food for thought.

Doesn't mean I'm not annoyed at the state of Cliffs of Dover all of a sudden, mind, but it could explain the amount of rage on the forum at times.

When all is said and done... whether fanboy or critic... we are a right spoiled bunch really. lol

Yes the cultural differences absolutely need to be considered as well. Spot on!

[Volksieg]

Originally Posted by FS~Phat

Yes the cultural differences absolutely need to be considered as well. Spot on!

Yep. I remember, a fair few years back now, I worked with a bunch of guys from (What was just then beginning not to be) Yugoslavia. Things would go wrong, as they do in any workplace, and my fellow Englishmen would get quite irate and the usual prejudice one hears about Slavs started being bandied around.... the amusing thing is, the job always got done! By the Yugoslavians, no less! Whilst they were slowly making their way over to the problem area, we were all too busy moaning, complaining, having mini-nervous breakdowns and ripping our hair out. In the UK people have to look busy... if they don't look busy then they, obviously, aren't. Truth being told all that is really happening is us English are just losing years from our lifespans for no good reason.

Anyway... I'm off to burst a blood vessel now as I ordered a book 2 weeks ago and it still hasn't been delivered...... RAGE!!!!