Congratulations Jaguar!!!

[Ze-Jamz]

Originally Posted by Robotic Pope

Do you guys arguing realise how childish you sound? Its like a damn "My dad could beat up your dad" fight in here.

It makes a change though...topic wise I mean..

''More!.More!''

[ATAG_Bliss]

Originally Posted by Robotic Pope

Do you guys arguing realise how childish you sound? Its like a damn "My dad could beat up your dad" fight in here.

There's nothing to argue about. There's some people that have actually raced cars and others that type on the internet saying they are good drivers because they own an old bag of crap alfa.

Good drivers would accept a racing challenge especially with the amount of money I'm willing to lay on the table. But as I very well figured from the get go, the white flag was raised by the other party that will not accept the challenge because A.) they don't really have a car. B.) they don't have the money, and C.) because they know they would get their ass handed to them.

I love calling people out on their BS. It would be better to laugh at him in person, but this is fun nonetheless. At least his lies are on the table for everyone to see. Not only can he not drive. He doesn't know the 1st thing about racing.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by Outlaw

I never said otherwise. Your comprehension level has dropped significantly below raaaid's.

dude, you do exactly the same thing you're accusing me of...

Regardless, I can't be bothered to check, but, I would not be surprised if the definition of an utter clown included some mention of taking a specific point in time, such as when a garage is not 100% clean, and generalizing that point in time to eternity. As has been so clearly stated before, some people actually WORK on cars which, by definition, will get things a bit dirty.

Yes, I do. Do you seriously believe Ford, GM, Toyota, etc. don't have an equal amount of engineering in their racing programs?

They don't, or better, they do a different kind of engineering R&D, which then gets applied to production cars. Don't forget that Ferrari is part of the FIAT group.

Do you know how to be any more vague in your ridiculously pathetic statements? I mean, SERIOUSLY, you haven't responded specifically to anything I have posted. Just meaningless generalizations with absolutely zero topical content.

Your inability to comprehend my posts exceeds raaaid's. I'll say it slower...

I never said anything about a lack of engineering effort on Ferrari's part. I merely stated that your belief that Ferrari's production cars are, "engineering marvels", is ridiculous. They are practically hand built for Pete's sake. It's easy to produce a hot car when you take that approach.

An engineering marvel is something that kicks a$$ AND lasts.

you keep on accusing me of what you do man. I told you before..

Have you had a look on how the latest generation Ferrari are designed? Or the new 4wd system introduced with the Ferrari FF? Come on man, Ferrari's engineering solutions have been envied and copied by so many others for decades!

Case in point. You have said NOTHING in the above statement. Additionally, the original was the GT40, not the GT.

you're nitpicking, and they're turning the new GT into a stupid muscle car only good on a straight line (actually it can't even go on a straight line..).

Why won't you answer my question with real substance and/or detail?

Furthermore, I never stated that the Ford GT (or any other car for that matter) would not have problems so your repeated mention of Clarkson is just drivel.

I love your double standard of Ferraris are great despite their WELL KNOWN horrible reliability and absolutely stupid maintenance requirements but ONE guy's story of the troubles he had with a Ford GT and therefore the Ford GT is a piece of junk compared to a Ferrari.

you're generalising just like you're accusing me of doing, yet....

You never asked me to explain.

It's pretty simple though. If you could read at a sufficient level you would have noticed where I previously stated how good the older models look. Combined with their investment value and the model I'm interested in, it's not a hard decision.

--Outlaw.

So you're happy to put up with an (alleged) bitch of a car for looks and as an investment? Interesting..

[ATAG_Bliss]

Back in 2006 the Ford GT beat out many super cars including many models of Ferrari at Nuremburg. It also keeps breaking world records for speed. It can go in a straight line or around a corner quite well. I believe it was somewhere around the 10th fastest car around the Top Gear track as well, beating out many competitors cars, some priced well over 100k more than the GT. Saying it isn't a good car for the money only once again shows your pure stupidity.

List of Ferrari's it beat on the Top Gear Test track. Mind you the GT time was ran in the water.

Porsche 911 Turbo Cabriolet 1:22.20 124 '09 500 / 1670 The Stig
Ferrari 360 CS 1:22.30 123 '03 425 / 1280 The Stig
Porsche 911 GT3 RS 1:22.30 123 '03 381 / 1360 The Stig.
Audi R8 V10 Spyder 1:22.30 123 '10 525 / 1720 The Stig
Chevrolet Corvette Z06 1:22.40 123 '05 513 / 1437 The Stig
Noble M15 1:22.50 123 '06 455 / 1250 The Stig
Lexus LF-A 1:22.80 w 123 '10 560 / 1609 The Stig Ferrari F430 1:22.90 122 '05 489 / 1450 The Stig
Mercedes SL65 AMG Black Series 1:23.00 122 '09 670 / 1870 The Stig. KTM X-Bow 1:23.10 122 '08 241 / 871 The Stig
Porsche 911 GT3 1:23.10 122 '09 435 / 1376 The Stig
Maserati GranTurismo MC Stradale 1:23.10 122 '11 450 / 1855 Stig
Ferrari F430 Spyder

[Outlaw]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

They don't, or better, they do a different kind of engineering R&D, which then gets applied to production cars. Don't forget that Ferrari is part of the FIAT group.

"They don't" and "different" are mutually exclusive.

Regardless, feel free to explain how the engineering R&D of the racing programs of Ford, GM, Toyota, etc. that then gets applied to production cars is different from Ferrari's operation?

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

you keep on accusing me of what you do man. I told you before..

No you didn't. You haven't said ANYTHING of substance to support your delusion that Ferraris are "engineering marvels". Show me ANYWHERE on the net that says Ferraris are not riddled with maintenance issues and are stupidly expensive to own.

Show me ANYTHING that contradicts what I've said. All you have posted is your opinion.

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

Have you had a look on how the latest generation Ferrari are designed? Or the new 4wd system introduced with the Ferrari FF? Come on man, Ferrari's engineering solutions have been envied and copied by so many others for decades!

Yes I have. Pretty sweet I must say. Nearly every major manufacturer can say the same thing about technology licenses. So what.

And apparently there is a need to say, once again, I have never dissed Ferrari's performance engineering in ANY of my posts.

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

you're nitpicking, and they're turning the new GT into a stupid muscle car only good on a straight line (actually it can't even go on a straight line..).

You do realize that the "newest" Ford GT is a 2006 model right?

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

you're generalising just like you're accusing me of doing, yet....

Feel free to explain where I have provided insufficient detail to support my position. I'm all ears.

I should not reiterate but I will. You have failed to respond specifically to a single question I have posted. You have not rebutted a single point of mine with, as I said before, anything other than an opinion.

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

So you're happy to put up with an (alleged) bitch of a car for looks and as an investment? Interesting..

No, it's not an "alleged" bitch, it's a bonafide bitch. Why do you think the, "if you have to ask how much the maintenance costs...", joke is repeated about a zillion times in every Ferrari owner's forum?

--Outlaw.

[Sternjaeger II]

Outlaw, you're doing a game of semantics here, which is pretty much trolling..

But hey, in order to satisfy your curiosity (so you will have something to talk about when you buy your Ferrari):

Ferrari was the inventor of the F1 gearbox, of carbon-ceramic brakes, F1-derived traction control, the e-diff.. and let's not even go in the field of aerodynamics..

They're cars of exquisite craftsmanship, and although not all of them are 100% perfect, apart for some faulty components that have been enhanced, the reliability issue is also due to the way owners drive these cars. These are no "turn the key and go" Prius, these cars need to be warmed up properly and driven with a different attitude.

If you're really getting yourself a 328 make sure you have a thorough understanding of how the old Ferrari gearboxes work, or you'd be in for some bad surprises and costly bills for sure.

The main thing I've noticed with Ferrari owners is that the "newcomers" always look at the fact they bought a Ferrari and are very hyped about it, but don't understand that they also need to get themselves a huge load of experience in driving a sports car together with it. Every car will get damaged or will suffer breakdowns if it's manhandled, and cars like older Ferraris, with no rev limiters, stability control and all the new gizmos they come with, are particularly prone because of the fact that they can be easily taken over the limits.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Doesn’t matter how skilled you are, or how good your car is. You drive you car according road conditions that prevail at the time. If you do anything else you’re just a bloody idiot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv8RS...eature=related

This video just goes to show that having access to lots of money does not make you any more skillful or intelligent.

[Outlaw]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

Outlaw, you're doing a game of semantics here, which is pretty much trolling..

Geez your whining about everyone being a troll is getting old.

Regardless, post some substance and respond to actual points made and the nitpicking won't be necessary.

SERIOUSLY, raaaid can argue better than you.

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

Ferrari was the inventor of the F1 gearbox, of carbon-ceramic brakes, F1-derived traction control, the e-diff.. and let's not even go in the field of aerodynamics..

So what, every major manufacturer has their list.

But that's not the point. Your continued blathering about Ferrari technology is such a wasted effort as my ONLY point regarding Ferraris...

You're correct if your definition of an, "engineering marvel", is a car that requires a $5k+ engine out service every 15k miles or 3 years.

That's it. Agree or disagree but posting pointless and blatantly obvious fact after fact DOES NOT CHANGE the above. If that's your definition, then fine, just say so.

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

They're cars of exquisite craftsmanship, and although not all of them are 100% perfect, apart for some faulty components that have been enhanced, the reliability issue is also due to the way owners drive these cars. These are no "turn the key and go" Prius, these cars need to be warmed up properly and driven with a different attitude.

Even in the best of hands and treatment the MANUFACTURER'S RECOMMENDED maintenance requirements are just pathetic. For such craftsmanship, you should get something better.

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

The main thing I've noticed with Ferrari owners is that the "newcomers" always look at the fact they bought a Ferrari and are very hyped about it, but don't understand that they also need to get themselves a huge load of experience in driving a sports car together with it. Every car will get damaged or will suffer breakdowns if it's manhandled, and cars like older Ferraris, with no rev limiters, stability control and all the new gizmos they come with, are particularly prone because of the fact that they can be easily taken over the limits.

Your insufferable pandering is just plain sad. Now you're just trying to point fingers and blame their issues on everything BUT the cars.

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

If you're really getting yourself a 328 make sure you have a thorough understanding of how the old Ferrari gearboxes work, or you'd be in for some bad surprises and costly bills for sure.

Oh please, stop trying to back off from the total a$$hat you've been up to this point.

--Outlaw.