To Oleg or Luthier: 4.09 / mods question

[Feuerfalke]

Would be interesting indeed. But he cannot.

The modders stole the code and ripped files from other games. Oleg hasn't got the freedom to take these sounds and incorporate them into an official patch.

Besides that, it would take quite a long time to see what changes were done, what effect that has on the rest of the game and if the changes are justified or not. I guess some minor things would be accepted, some others probably not.

Another thing is flyables. The modders can simply copy'n'paste flightmodels from similar planes and that's about it. If Oleg did so officially, a flamewar would start, that surpasses any "50s vs Tigers" and "To bar or not to bar" by far.

Even worse with the 6DOF. Oleg posted before, that he'd like to do that for IL2, but the work on the cockpit simply forbid that. As the situation has not really softened down, I don't see why this has changed. So 6DOF wouldn't be possible.

But if you make these exceptions, you also make it pretty clear that you have to review the mods and it's also clear that those not chosen would be pretty pissed.

[leitmotiv]

This reminds me of the ferocious arguments among boardgamers in the '70's about SPI (Simulations Publications International) boardgames and the Avalon Hill "classics." The Players of the hoary, old Avalon Hill games had a well-established play-by-mail system, player rating system, and convention competition system. These players of had played AH games for years, there was literally an established literature on their play like chess. They perceived the new, popular SPI games as completely toxic. The SPI games were seen to destroy the carefully established competition system which depended on the perpetuation of the use of the AH "classics." SPI players were seen as anarchists by the hard-core AH players. There were bitter debates. Before long everybody recognized the vast superiority of SPI games in terms of quality, realism, and presentation, and the arguments ceased. Nothing in this world stands still. Especially products for consumers. IL-2 is a game. it is not holy doctrine possessed of some intrinsic, immutable truth. It is just a toy.

[Oktoberfest]

+ 1.... Sadly, things changed. It's like when the knights at middleage posted a rule banning the crossbow because it was a cheat and not fair weapon against them... Well, at the beginning everyone agreed, but no one stopped using them because it was really an improvment in warfare....

[Revolter]

Originally Posted by leitmotiv

This reminds me of the ferocious arguments among boardgamers in the '70's about SPI (Simulations Publications International) boardgames and the Avalon Hill "classics." The Players of the hoary, old Avalon Hill games had a well-established play-by-mail system, player rating system, and convention competition system. These players of had played AH games for years, there was literally an established literature on their play like chess. They perceived the new, popular SPI games as completely toxic. The SPI games were seen to destroy the carefully established competition system which depended on the perpetuation of the use of the AH "classics." SPI players were seen as anarchists by the hard-core AH players. There were bitter debates. Before long everybody recognized the vast superiority of SPI games in terms of quality, realism, and presentation, and the arguments ceased. Nothing in this world stands still. Especially products for consumers. IL-2 is a game. it is not holy doctrine possessed of some intrinsic, immutable truth. It is just a toy.

Leitmotiv, I thank you most kindly for stating the obvious for all to try and understand. Time moves on. Hardware and software change for the better. Thanks also to Oleg and his staff for the past, present and forthcoming products.

A very dedicated fan and supporter of 1C.

[6S.Maraz]

Originally Posted by Feuerfalke

The modders stole the code and ripped files from other games.

Feuerfalke, you have a wrong perception of what the modders did, that probably comes from ignorance. So please stop offending. Just to inform you. There are lots of modders that made original works, investing lots of time, without copying anything from other games.

Thanks
Maraz

[Feuerfalke]

Originally Posted by 6S.Maraz

Feuerfalke, you have a wrong perception of what the modders did, that probably comes from ignorance. So please stop offending. Just to inform you. There are lots of modders that made original works, investing lots of time, without copying anything from other games.

Thanks
Maraz

It wasn't my intention to offend you or anybody, but in the "soundmod" I had 99% of the files were taken from other sims. Don't know if that really changed with the latest release, which I didn't test yet.

Same is for some other parts of the code, but I won't go into more detail here. The fact that I don't think legalizing the modding-idea is the best choice doesn't mean I am ignorant or that I don't use or test them or look into the things that were changed, JFYI.

[LEXX]

leitmotive::

This reminds me of the ferocious arguments among boardgamers in the '70's about SPI (Simulations Publications International) boardgames and the Avalon Hill "classics." The Players of the hoary, old Avalon Hill games had a well-established play-by-mail system, player rating system, and convention competition system. These players of had played AH games for years, there was literally an established literature on their play like chess. They perceived the new, popular SPI games as completely toxic. The SPI games were seen to destroy the carefully established competition system which depended on the perpetuation of the use of the AH "classics." SPI players were seen as anarchists by the hard-core AH players. There were bitter debates. Before long everybody recognized the vast superiority of SPI games in terms of quality, realism, and presentation, and the arguments ceased. Nothing in this world stands still. Especially products for consumers. IL-2 is a game. it is not holy doctrine possessed of some intrinsic, immutable truth. It is just a toy.

Paraquoting Mark Twain, rumours of the sim's demise have been grossly exaggerated. The FB/PF community, online and offline together, has moved well beyond the old "cheater" accusations of the hostile computer gamers as I long ago predicted.

[Feathered_IV]

Originally Posted by Feuerfalke

It wasn't my intention to offend you or anybody, but in the "soundmod" I had 99% of the files were taken from other sims. Don't know if that really changed with the latest release, which I didn't test yet.

The samples now come from Mediterranean Air War - the freeware third party addon for CFS3. It's in the readme.

[LEXX]

The Strikefighters' mods sometimes make use of 3rd Party work from other sims. I assume this may be fairly common in the gaming world. Would this be Correct Thinking? As I only play The Sims, and only one The Sim at a time -- Strikefighters currently no more FB -- I never really thought about it before but it makes sense.

[Feuerfalke]

Originally Posted by Feathered_IV

The samples now come from Mediterranean Air War - the freeware third party addon for CFS3. It's in the readme.

You noticed that the MAW-team doesn't have a sound-creator, but merely people who did the additional voice-packs?
As a freeware-addon, MAW has little problems to use credits for using other peoples or CFS sounds and mixing them with sounds from other sources for a non-profit-addon.

That's different for MG and IL2, though.


Besides that the readme just thanks Lawdog for allowing to use his engine-samples. It doesn't say that all engine samples are from him.
If you follow the discussion on the boards, you'll notice where a lot of sounds came from.