Now see what moding does for a game and company!

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

AFAIK both flightsims, that you named, ship with a very small content by default and have mods as one main game concept. IL-2 was never constructed to be modable.

What about EAW?

[K_Freddie]

Maybe a bit of history...
Oleg resisted any mods for as long as possible as he had a clear concept about IL2. It's main function was a online 'competitive' air combat game, and in this he achieved his aim. He resisted any code/model disclosures to the public for years and this is to his credit - keeping the 'modifications/updates' within a small trusted team.. currently TD.

For all it's short-comings IL2 un-modded was better than any other flight-sim (including extremely modded ones -> FSX) in terms of DM, FM and a lot of other features, over its first 6-8 years. It was a niche market and very successful. Since the cracks and mods have appeared that online popularity has definitely waned.. and Oleg has 'left the building'.

There will not be another sim like this for a long long time... another PERIOD.

[MaxGunz]

Even as IL-2 was rising the highly moddable CFS was losing customers for two reasons:

1 - IL-2 had more realistic FM especially in the handling/motions.

2 - CFS Frankenplanes ruining the online experience.

Oleg could not open IL-2 without giving away his stock-in-trade, how they achieved the complexity they did on then current and even not so current PC's.

It's funny there were people couldn't understand that who kept demanding that he tell it all "so they could check the accuracy". What a joke!

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

There was always a way of 'modding' to the stock game. Everyone could deliver their models or stuff to Oleg and if it hit the requirements, it was build in. So some kind of modding with quality control. Whole PF content was made like this.
Cannot imagine a better way.

[Jones]

Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar

Cannot imagine a better way.

Very much in agreement.

[CWMV]

Very much disagree.
More content from more creators means more choice for the end user, which is never a bad thing.

[MaxGunz]

It depends on the standards of the content, which is what Daidalos is about.
This ain't CFS where anything goes.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by K_Freddie

Maybe a bit of history...
Oleg resisted any mods for as long as possible as he had a clear concept about IL2. It's main function was a online 'competitive' air combat game, and in this he achieved his aim. He resisted any code/model disclosures to the public for years and this is to his credit - keeping the 'modifications/updates' within a small trusted team.. currently TD.

For all it's short-comings IL2 un-modded was better than any other flight-sim (including extremely modded ones -> FSX) in terms of DM, FM and a lot of other features, over its first 6-8 years. It was a niche market and very successful. Since the cracks and mods have appeared that online popularity has definitely waned.. and Oleg has 'left the building'.

There will not be another sim like this for a long long time... another PERIOD.

Spot on.........

Originally Posted by CWMV

Very much disagree.
More content from more creators means more choice for the end user, which is never a bad thing.

I'm more in line with Caspar on this one.. Consider this.. Had the standards set by 1C been different or had the sim been hacked earlier .. or had the sim been open from the beginning the mods we have would not be what they are. I believe the even modded IL2 is what it is because of what it was.. the fan base.. the way most of us think about the sim... this is because of the way it was.. the fact that for a long time IL2 was the only sim out there that you could get online with and be pretty assured that the only difference between the plane that the pilot A was flying and the same plane that plot be was flying .. was the pilot.. That fact raised not only the expectations of the community to a new level.. one not possible before IL2, but it also, merely by virtue of raising said expectations, raised the standard for what was "acceptable". The way this community has handled mods has evolved over the years but had it not been for the difficulty of the code.. which right off the bat eliminated a lot of potential "kiddie hackers" and the standards set by the community based on the original product, I think we might have seen a lot more cr@p mods.. More than we did.. and there were some.. I think that having TD is the only way to even have a chance at establishing a standard if you will..

[CWMV]

That's just it though, I see no need for a standard.
For that matter I have no faith in the people who set the original standard. The bias that the original game came with was so overwhelming, and the way they handled any critique or request for investigation/revision (like it was a personal insult/ban them!) inspired me with little faith. Rocket powered Lavochkins anyone?
That being said TD has done a pretty good job.
Let there be a plethora of choice, and let each player choose what suits him best.
That being said I simply do not give a rats rear end about online play so your whole argument is neither here or there for me.

[Jones]

Originally Posted by CWMV

That being said I simply do not give a rats rear end about online play so your whole argument is neither here or there for me.

And that's the rub. You can play pretend airplanes with arms outstretched in your back yard and call it a perfect air combat simulator for all anyone cares or should care. It's a free world after all. But on-line is different. Would anyone even consider playing chess against a human opponent if they did not know their opponent was using the same pieces and following the same rules? Obviously not.

We owe Oleg and 1C a big thank you for enabling the on-line community that existed a few years ago before the game was hacked. TD are now the keepers of that particular faith.