Friday Update, June 08, 2012

[Blackdog_kt]

Thanks for the update and the continued support.

I rarely post specific questions because they tend to get buried in an avalanche of more popular topics that usually concern fighters or the graphics engine for the most part.

However, since we now seem to be at a point where most of these issues are being taken care of, i would like to bring your attention to the real protagonists of the BoB, the aircraft that gave the fighters a reason to go on missions: the bombers.

The issues that exist thus far have been well documented, so i'll just repeat them briefly.

Flight ceilings for He111 and Ju88: The 88 could fly higher (although maybe not too much when fully loaded) and the 111 lower. What we currently have is the opposite.

Bombsight bugs in the luftwaffe bombers: When automation is engaged, the sight tracks the target correctly by treating user input as metric units. However, the release point is calculated wrong because it treats the "bombsight speed" values as imperial units.

So, if you are flying at 300km/h and input that in the bombsight, the sight will track the target correctly but release wrong. If you convert your speed to mph and input that in the sight, it will not track correctly but will release correctly for whatever it is tracking.

IAS/TAS conversions: In many cases and for most, if not all, bombers in the sim, players report that they get more accurate drops when they use their IAS instead of TAS in the sights. Do the sights feature automatic calculating of TAS or is it a bug? I could see a reason for automatic TAS and ground speed conversions, if/when the dynamic weather module gets implemented
we will have no way to calculate ground speed because we don't have drift meters in most bombers.
(The luftwaffe bombers can correct drift by engaging automation and correcting to keep the sight picture steady while looking through the scope, but the others cant.)

Ju88 gyrocompass: It has been inoperative since the release of the sim. This makes it impossible to use the autopilot in the Ju88, which means it's impossible to level bomb with any degree of accuracy and the 88 is only used as a dive bomber or low-altitude skip-bomber.

Turret controls: If it would be possible, it would be great to implement a command that allows the player to exchange control of the turret with the AI, like it was in the previous IL2 series.

Br20: I haven't flown it much, but i think that the mouse controls for the top turret are reversed. If anyone else knows of any other bugs with it, please report them too.

110 fuel/engines: Now that the developer team is providing us with all the suitable variants of RAF fighters in terms of engines and octane rating, could the same be done for the the 110? I wouldn't consider the need for 109 high octane versions too great because not too many of them were present in the BoB. However, about half the 110 fleet or more was using uprated engines with higher octane fuel. This made it one of the faster fighters in the theater, if not outright faster (acceleration is another matter though ).

Since players tend to fly with more flexible tactical doctrines than the LW did (we don't have Goering threatening us and most of us have read some history books), it would create a lot of interesting scenarios to have the fast 110s employed as either low altitude fighter-bombers or high altitude air superiority fighters, free of the constraints of escorting bombers.

I think that correcting the above points would not only make the sim more realistic but also more enjoyable, enabling it to move to a higher level of tactical/strategic planning. Especially if some SDK/documentation is released for scripting

Don't take my suggestions as complaints. They are just things that i feel need to be added to the sim, along with everything else you are working on. Now that most of the dedicated fighter pilots will be happy and the graphics performance will be improved, two of the most demanded for features will be finished, leaving the team with some free time to work on something else.

So, let's fix the bombers and get some documentation on scripting dynamic campaigns, because it will make the sim highly (re)playable and much more enjoyable, both offline and online. Cheers and keep up the good work

[pencon]

Does this mean the full time flap hiss actuation noise will finally be history on the bf109? Excellent! That was driving me crazy . Also hopefully the rudder won't continuously be bouncing back and forth in 3rd person view .

[335th_GRAthos]

Thanks for the update BlackSix, good hear that good things are moving forward.

Do not want to be a spoil but, I get nervous when I see counter-clockwise rotation of the PE-2 propellers.
Picture of the real thing below....




@Blakdog_kt: +1 thanks for putting a nice summary of the bomber issues


~S~

[Bounder!]

Oh my word! Thanks BlackSix, fantastic news re the 100 octane spits and hurries! Glad to see FM still being worked on.

Will WEP in 109 have a noticeable effect on speed? Up to now it was really limited. Or am I doing something wrong?

[JG53Frankyboy]

indeed, a Bf110C-4/N would be nice to have. Lets hope that the two existing 110s will get their MG-FF/M at least....

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by Redroach

ah, 100 octane, finally!

otherwise: what blackdog said, plus: The Blenheim IV NEEDS a level stabilizer, even if not historically correct, plus some sight device to look straight forward, for longer-range target identification (perhaps the periscope thingy to the right of the bombsight in the blen's bombardier seat actually did exactly this in RL?)

P.S.: I told you I would be appeased by having Radio commands! I can live with some flaws, but that was essential! (could use some more work, though)

For the Blenheim and every other bomber that doesn't have an autopilot, i was thinking of a "command the pilot" mode that would simulate the real procedure. I would also extend this to all existing bombers to simulate the fact that any pilot could be guided through the bomb run by the bombardier.

The way i see it working:

1) Switch to bombardier's seat.

2) Activate "command" mode (new keybinding)

3) The AI keeps the plane level. Up till now it's like a level stabilizer.

4) From this point on the similarities with level stab end. The player uses the same keybindings that are used to command left/right turns from the luftwaffe autopilots, but these have a different effect in "command" mode.

5) Every time the player taps these keys, the AI that is flying the plane is starting a gentle turn to the left/right.

6) Unlike the autopilot function (where the AP turns until the gyro heading matches the requested one), in command mode the turn continues until the bombardier explicitly tells the pilot to level off. This can be done by tapping the keys in the opposite direction: if you told the AI to steer left, pressing the key to steer right will level the plane off, and so on.

7) There would be a slight delay in matching commands to aircraft actions to simulate the time needed for the pilot to react (just like it happens with the AP to simulate their gyro-driven nature)


Such a function would not only solve the current problem, but also efficiently simulate the real thing and whatever gains and disadvantages exist in talking the pilot through the bomb run.

+
no need to use autopilots even in aircraft that have them
aircraft with no autopilots can level bomb with some precision even if only one human player is crewing them

-
less precise than autopilots due to the need to issue "level off" commands



If you guys like this idea, by all means add it as a suggested feature to the bugtracker.

Originally Posted by Stealth_Eagle

Blackdog, good summery of bomber issues. A couple that I have for the Br. 20 (A lovely aircraft that isn't really appreciated by most): if you switch positions while starting your engines online, sometimes a mysterious autopilot will take over, looking down the bombsite will occasionally freeze the game, and the altitude adjustment for the Br. 20 only shows increasing in incriments of 100 despite it being otherwise. Another small feature that I would like to request is more fuzes for the Italian bombs so we can also to low level ship bombing as well.


Thanks for the awesome update BlackSix, hopefully all goes well and can't wait for the sequel to be more formally announced.

Originally Posted by JG53Frankyboy

indeed, a Bf110C-4/N would be nice to have. Lets hope that the two existing 110s will get their MG-FF/M at least....

Thank you both for replying with extra information (duh, i totally forgot about the MG-FF/M on the 110s! it's already in the sim because E-4s have it, so it would be no biggie to add it)

I think that maybe we should open a thread only for bomber/twin-engined aircraft issues to generate some buzz. Many of these are small details that seem to be simple mismatch errors when typing the code (to the tune of replacing "left" with "right" or "true" with "false"), especially the control reversal bugs and instruments or equipment that are already present in the sim and work in one plane but not in another.

If they are quick and simple fixes like that, getting the attention of the dev team with a separate thread might help us get faster results, maybe even squeeze a couple of fixes into the upcoming test patch.

I encourage everyone with experience in bombers to post in such a thread in the main forum section (so that we also don't have to derail this one ), create one and get going. I will manage and/or collate information during the weekend, i can sticky it for a couple of days to get some attention and once it's up and running, i can move it to an appropriate sub-forum. But in any case, what we need is pilots to report in with their findings about:

the sim's bombers in general (doesn't have to be multi-engined, the stuka qualifies too)

twin-engined aircraft

So, we are essentially looking at all bombers plus the dual-role 110.

[hiro]

thanks!


You guys are doing lots of awesome.




Keep it up! It's gonna be legend-

... wait for it... (this is key, )


and I hope you're not lactose intolerant because the second half of that word is




DAIRY!

[Insuber]

That's constructive moderation, thank you Blackdog!

[Redroach]

Regarding Blenheim Level Stab:
Don't ever accuse me for pledging for historical inaccuracy! I'm the very last one this applies to! However, the reality is that you're flying mostly alone and don't have the pilot to fly straight and level while playing the bombardier's role.

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

For the Blenheim and every other bomber that doesn't have an autopilot, i was thinking of a "command the pilot" mode that would simulate the real procedure. I would also extend this to all existing bombers to simulate the fact that any pilot could be guided through the bomb run by the bombardier.

The way i see it working:

1) Switch to bombardier's seat.

2) Activate "command" mode (new keybinding)

3) The AI keeps the plane level. Up till now it's like a level stabilizer.

4) From this point on the similarities with level stab end. The player uses the same keybindings that are used to command left/right turns from the luftwaffe autopilots, but these have a different effect in "command" mode.

5) Every time the player taps these keys, the AI that is flying the plane is starting a gentle turn to the left/right.

6) Unlike the autopilot function (where the AP turns until the gyro heading matches the requested one), in command mode the turn continues until the bombardier explicitly tells the pilot to level off. This can be done by tapping the keys in the opposite direction: if you told the AI to steer left, pressing the key to steer right will level the plane off, and so on.

7) There would be a slight delay in matching commands to aircraft actions to simulate the time needed for the pilot to react (just like it happens with the AP to simulate their gyro-driven nature)


Such a function would not only solve the current problem, but also efficiently simulate the real thing and whatever gains and disadvantages exist in talking the pilot through the bomb run.

+
no need to use autopilots even in aircraft that have them
aircraft with no autopilots can level bomb with some precision even if only one human player is crewing them

-
less precise than autopilots due to the need to issue "level off" commands



If you guys like this idea, by all means add it as a suggested feature to the bugtracker.

Sounds like a good suggestion; however, I don't know if additional programming effort at this point is justified for that. I'd be perfectly happy with a simple LStab. ^^