Minimum convergence?

[Blackdog_kt]

In a plane with wing mounted guns there are limits to how close you can set your convergence.

We would have to know the dimensions of gun bays in each fighter and the dimensions of the guns to know if the gun is even able to be turned that far inwards to close the convergence. And that's assuming the rounds don't go through the prop disc.

I'm not saying it couldn't be done because i frankly don't know, i'm just making an educated guess that settings to the effect of 50 meters or below were impossible, due to the above reasons.
Whatever the case, it's a far cry from simply asking the devs for settings below 100 meters. It needs some research first and it's individual for every aircraft.

The reason Hartman could shoot from so close is that he flew a fighter with nose mounted guns. In that case, even if the gun convergence settings are limited by the size of gun vs size of gun bay, there are two significant advantages:

1) There is synchronizing gear, so shooting through the prop is not an issue.

2) You can set your guns for 400meters and still shoot at point blank range. Just aim lower than the target (use the upper part of your revi to line up the target, instead of the crosshairs).

[5./JG27.Farber]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

1) There is synchronizing gear, so shooting through the prop is not an issue.

On a 109 is shoots through the prop spinner not the prop...

[Al Schlageter]

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

On a 109 is shoots through the prop spinner not the prop...

Not for the 7.92mm.

The link to the bug for voting:

http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/309

[SlipBall]

In the old IL-2 game owners manual there are some advice given, to get to 70m before opening fire...IMO down to 50m should be available in game.

[TomcatViP]

Storm, I think you are mixing convergence indication on the gunsight and guns convergence.

There is no way you can set your guns to converge as so short distance as 50 m. Try to remind that flying a fighter plane during BoB was not a sport that you will practice in a selfish manner. You had orders, directives and technical operatives procedures that order could be achieved following the directives (otherwise there is no planned tactics hence no strategies).

By the way, those indication are in the maintenance manuals, not in the pilot manual. I think I alrdy saw one passing by on this forum

You also made an error IMHO:
Distance of convergence = L*cosinus
Distance of gun from main axis = L*sinus

tan= sin/cos and Tan^-1=angle of EACH GUN

Offset of gun at the gun's breech : d_gun*sinus (d is the length of the buried part of the gun)
In the case of 50m conv for 2m it give us 8cm offset (1m long gun - machine-gun).

For a plane with four gun in each wing, it means that you'll have to keep 32cm of available free space without taking into account any structural spacer.

Also : Size of prop = 3.6 for 109 if I do remind well
etc...

[raaaid]

hartman used 20 m i think, i miss that option

[TomcatViP]

yes yes yes... but in the G.U.N.S.I.G.H.T !!!

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

Storm, I think you are mixing convergence indication on the gunsight and guns convergence.

There is no way you can set your guns to converge as so short distance as 50 m. Try to remind that flying a fighter plane during BoB was not a sport that you will practice in a selfish manner. You had orders, directives and technical operatives procedures that order could be achieved following the directives (otherwise there is no planned tactics hence no strategies).

By the way, those indication are in the maintenance manuals, not in the pilot manual. I think I alrdy saw one passing by on this forum

You also made an error IMHO:
Distance of convergence = L*cosinus
Distance of gun from main axis = L*sinus

tan= sin/cos and Tan^-1=angle of EACH GUN

Offset of gun at the gun's breech : d_gun*sinus (d is the length of the buried part of the gun)
In the case of 50m conv for 2m it give us 8cm offset (1m long gun - machine-gun).

For a plane with four gun in each wing, it means that you'll have to keep 32cm of available free space without taking into account any structural spacer.

Also : Size of prop = 3.6 for 109 if I do remind well
etc...

Actually that is exactly how I calculated the angle:

angle = arctan (convergence / distance of gun) (tangens = Gegenkathete durch Ankathete)

So assuming that the gun in question was about 2m from the symmetrical plane the difference of gun orientation in the horizontal plane would be merely 2° when passing from 100m to 50m convergence. 2° is nothing.

And Hartmann definitely shot at close range and he gave a dam about what the handbook or the rules said.

EDIT: For 2° the offset on the tip or the end of the buried part pf the gun would be 7 cm assuming a 2m gun length buried in the wing and assuming that the other end did not move. Assuming that the centre of the buried part did not move the spacing needed on both ends would be merely 3.5cm.

[VO101_Tom]

Originally Posted by 41Sqn_Stormcrow

...And Hartmann definitely shot at close range and he gave a dam about what the handbook or the rules said.

He flew with 109 G. The convergence much more important, if you have wing mounted guns.