A newbies impression of the 109 and spit

[NZtyphoon]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

Frise ailerons are a pain to balance and rig. The FW-190 was plagued with adjustment issues too.

Yep, fabric covered ailerons which, as Quill explained, had to be individually trimmed, using lengths of cord then matched as pairs to each airframe. It would be interesting to see whether the same problems continued with the much stiffer metal covered ailerons.

[NZtyphoon]

Originally Posted by VO101_Tom

False comparison, the weakest point of the Jet fighters is the human physiology and the Jet engine. These two causes the restrictions, not the aircraft's structure.

At the risk of being OT:

F-16 accident database/

F-16 crashes up; attributed to human error.

Although the F-15 did have a structural weakness:

2007 F-15 breakup

[TomcatViP]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

I've has sim experience in ROF flying with the camel, you need a feather touch on the elevator and can over turn the camel with ease. It's also a trick to fly level, as to not overshoot your controls and nose up or down wildly.

I do kinda agree with the Me-109 turn. It should of course, not be able to hold with the spit in a sustained turn...but it seems right now to not nearly to be able to stay with the spit even with an energy advantage. I got bounced by an ME-109 today (he ran me down from my 6 so he was moving faster) who somehow missed with his cannons. I immediately broke left and held a tight turn with ease, Looped around and found him in a now lower energy state after attempting to follow me. I pumped some rounds into him and killed his pilot pretty quickly. It just makes me wonder how I held so much energy from that hard turn, where as the ME-109 seemed to bleed a crazy amount, and be a sitting duck for me to come around and fill him with lead. The Spit should turn better yes, But my question is...does it bleed energy as fast and is this historic? Maybe we could do a test and make a hard turn and see how long it takes to stall, or alternatively how high we can get in altitude after the turn. this would have a comparison of energy retained after a vigorous turn possibly. We wouldn't be comparing turn radius, just energy retained after a min turn radius turn.

We hve been writing this in evry sense since the sim is out: the Spit does not bleed E in turns.
It can loop ard anything without rest like a toy loop around the chest of a young girl dancing the Hula hoop.

Frankly if with such a good eye you are a newbie, I want to see tons like you flooding the server and sweep out all those rusty IL2 vets tht stand to their old Oleg world (I am also refering to the other FM thread like the G cut out, the ammo etc... etc..)

[VO101_Tom]

Originally Posted by NZtyphoon

At the risk of being OT:
F-16 accident database/
F-16 crashes up; attributed to human error.
Although the F-15 did have a structural weakness:...

Hi. I do not know what to look here , but some of our squadmates flying in the HuAF. VO101_TB, who Gripen pilot tell a story 1-2 years ago. One of his RL squadmate was an idiot, and pull 12G in the Gripen (The stick have a security knob (10G limit), which stuck the stick. The guy continued to pull). The plane landed without problems, but the aircraft had been sent back to Sweden for inspection. He said, the great G force may bend the engine, but the structure has to withstand smoothly.
Maybe the older F-16 type structure is weaker, so I do not know. Of course, fuel load and weapons load affects the G tolerance. This is clear.

[6S.Manu]

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

We hve been writing this in evry sense since the sim is out: the Spit does not bleed E in turns.
It can loop ard anything without rest like a toy loop around the chest of a young girl dancing the Hula hoop.

Frankly if with such a good eye you are a newbie, I want to see tons like you flooding the server and sweep out all those rusty IL2 vets tht stand to their old Oleg world (I am also refering to the other FM thread like the G cut out, the ammo etc... etc..)

Amen my friend!

[41Sqn_Banks]

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

We hve been writing this in evry sense since the sim is out: the Spit does not bleed E in turns.
...
all those rusty IL2 vets tht stand to their old Oleg world

The irony is that the same claim about no energy loose of Spitfires were frequently stated in the good old Oleg world

[fruitbat]

Originally Posted by 41Sqn_Banks

The irony is that the same claim about no energy loose of Spitfires were frequently stated in the good old Oleg world

all the time, lol!

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

We hve been writing this in evry sense since the sim is out: the Spit does not bleed E in turns.
It can loop ard anything without rest like a toy loop around the chest of a young girl dancing the Hula hoop.

Frankly if with such a good eye you are a newbie, I want to see tons like you flooding the server and sweep out all those rusty IL2 vets tht stand to their old Oleg world (I am also refering to the other FM thread like the G cut out, the ammo etc... etc..)

Thank you for the compliment! I've Flown a lot of Rise Of Flight since it came out, but I'm still learning on this sim. I figured I was kinda expecting the 2 aircraft to perform like the Se5a (ME-109) and Sopwith Camel (Spitfire). The Se5a is faster and climbs better, but does not turn as well sustained but can, in exchange for much energy pull lead for a short time. The Camel on the other hand can make very sharp turns...but has poorly balanced controls in the case of a sensitive elevator like the spit. One can over turn the aircraft. Flying her with a light touch the Camel can dance around anybody...but ham hands McGuee will just stall and spin out of the sky. These flight characteristics are a bit exaggerated since the Se5a is much faster than the camel and the Camel in turn Turns way, way better where as the ME-109 and spit are a bit closer. However, I Found this to be nowhere near the case with the Spit. Sure, the ME-109 Acts like my classic BNZ fighters...the Spad and Se5a...but the Spit is nothing like the camel because it seems to un-historically have no extreme sensitivity to the controls.

It's interesting to hear that the Idea of the Spitfire not losing E has been around since the original IL2. Is it possible certain details of the FM have been kept over? It could be interesting for the devs to see how much code was held over from older games and if that is causing out problem now.

[Crumpp]

not losing E

I hate the expression, "bleeding energy"....

There is not such thing in aircraft performance. There is only sustainable performance and instantenous performance.

If it the performance is sustainable then the aircraft can achieve that performance until it runs out of fuel.

There is not an aircraft in existance that can sustain instantenous performance so it is just silly to talk about it as "bleeding energy". In fact, the generally speaking aircraft with the higher braking forces will win the instantenous turn competition. All aircraft at the same angle of bank and velocity will make the same turn.

[IvanK]

"I hate the expression, "bleeding energy"....

There is not such thing in aircraft performance. There is only sustainable performance and instantaneous performance."

So when a manoeuver diagrams have values of negative Specific excess power (Ps) and these are used to compare sustained turn performance and energy bleed rates between 2 aircraft what do you call it ?

The worlds fighter pilots use the term "Energy Bleed' everyday. ...... but I guess they are all misguided dealing with the real world rather than theoretical commentary.