Spit IIa is now so much more inferior to the 109

[Kwiatek]

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

Based on the specifications of 500 km/h for the Bf 109E series with DB 601Aa (with 1045 PS), the resulting extra power of the DB 601N (1175 PS, and much more at altitude) in the E-4/N should be good for about 515 km/h at SL.

Not confirmed. Only think confirmed for me is that serial 109 E at 1.3 Ata ( 5 minutes emergency power) could do 467-475 km/h at sea level.

And power ratings between 601Aa and 601N ( 109 E) are not too much different at low alts but if someone could read lol:

Db601 Aa



Db601N ( 109 E)

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by Kwiatek

Not confirmed. Only think confirmed for me is that serial 109 E at 1.3 Ata ( 5 minutes emergency power) could do 467-475 km/h at sea level.

*sigh*

That's your opinion, Kwiatek.

And this is Messerschmitt AG.'s opinion on the matter.

http://kurfurst.org/Performance_test...w_109V15a.html



http://kurfurst.org/Performance_test...chreibung.html


G e s c w i n d i g k e i t s - L e i s t u n g e n:


Höchtsgeschwindigeit in 0 m 500 km/h
in 1000 m 510 "
in 2000 m 530 "
in 3000 m 540 "
in 4000 m 555 "
in 5000 m 570 "
in 6000 m 565 km/h
in 7000 m 560 km/h




Bei den Geschwindigkeiten ist eine Toleranz von +/- 5 % vor-
zusehen. Die Leistungen sind auf Cina-Temperatur gerechnet.



S t e i g z e i t e n.


Steigzeit auf 1000 m 1,0 Minuten
auf 2000 m 1,9 "
auf 3000 m 3,0 "
auf 4000 m 3,8 "
auf 5000 m 4,9 "
auf 6000 m 6,3 "



Bei den Steigzeiten ist eine Toleranz von +/- 8 % vorzusehen.
Leistungen sind auf Cine-Temperatur gerechnet.

[Kwiatek]

Yea you start again with prototypes and folder data not for serial planes. Serial 109 E test proff different results - 467- 475 km/h at 1.3 Ata (990 PS). Nothing new to me and no sense to disccussion these again.

BTW

109 T-2 with Db601N in May 1941 reached at 1.35 Ata 2600 RPM - 1175 PS ( maximum emergency power) 490 km/h at the deck.

So i think for 109 E-3/4 at 1.4-1.45 Ata ( 1- minut emergency power) it is possible 490-500 km/h at the deck for a while ( less then 1 minut) nothing more.

For comparsion serial Spitfire MK1 at +12 lbs could do 505 km/h at the deck but for longer time ( 5- minutes).

Edit

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by Kwiatek

Yea you start again with prototypes and folder data not for serial planes.

*Yawn* The above are the corrected results for an E-series standard aircraft, and the official type specification of the 109E guaranteed within +/- 5% by the manufacturer.

Serial 109 E test proff different results - 467- 475 km/h at 1.3 Ata (990 PS). Nothing new to me and not sense to disccussion these.

Yes with engine outputs uncorrected and in all likelyhood using the higher supercharger gear. They are not even performance tests anyway, but mere comparisons of different installations compared to the standard installation.

There's a reason these trials are never ever considered by Messerschmitt AG as the type's representative perfomance.

109 T-2 with Db601N in May 1941 reached at 1.35 Ata 2600 RPM - 1175 PS ( maximum emergency power) 490 km/h at the deck.

Indeed, the 109T in comparison the 109E had a tailhook and enlarged wing area though.

So i think for 109 E-3/4 at 1.4-1.45 Ata ( 1- minut emergency power) it is possible 490-500 km/h at the deck for a while nothing more.

Messerschmitt AG thinks otherwise. They think 500 km/h is possible for the 109E series with 1.35ata for 5 minutes, and that the coolant and oil temperatures should be well within limits with the radiator flaps 1/4 open.

For comparsion serial Spitfire MK1 at +12 lbs could do 505 km/h at the deck but for longer time ( 5- minutes).

I'd like to see that test of that supposedly 'serial production' Spitfire I doing 505 km/h deck.

Truth is, that the 109E could do 500 km/h on the deck at its five minute rating (and practically indefiniately as the coolant system could cope with it easily), the Spitfire could do about 500 km/h at its five minute emergency rating, though it needed 100 octane fuel to compete and engine wear was hihgh. I am not sure if it's coolant system could take it for long, since it was originally designed for 30% less power/temperature load. The 109E could push things a bit further at tree top using the 1-minute rating, though this was officially not sanction but only for take off.

[Hooves]

Krupi, quit pretending that you aren't dripping with BIAS. Its pretty pathetic. Second, if you are in a 109 and you allow your self to get in a turn fight with a Spit, you DESERVE to get shot down.

I will post the video of a friend and I flying together comparing the 109 and Spit climb rates, needless to say the 109 walks away from the SPIT IIa like its standing still in a climb.


I really have to laugh when the RAF aircraft have been gutted and yet you cry for more nerfing, but yet also cry for more performance out your "unbiased" 109. Yet you offer no numbers, facts, or concrete evidence of the fact that SPIT's are superior.


Like someone else mentioned a good Spit Pilot against a average 109 pilot A spit can win (if he suckers the 109 into a turn fight).

But a good 109 and a good Spit, The Spit fire is doomed, speed is life. The Spit cant run away, or disengage a Z & B. If a 109 messes up he just runs for home. NO SPIT can catch a 109 in a FLAT out drag race.

100 OCtane isnt magical, its proven. Hell even the fuel tanks in the menu say 100 Octane on them.

You dont wanna get beat by a SPIT? Dont get suckered into his fight. You wanna Beat a 109? Get him to blow all his E in a right hand turn.

And you have the guts to call someone else a whiner?

The 109 was reputed to have the superiour climb than the spit so I do not see anything wrong with this.

I do not know the tendency of speed but there might simply be no general "plane X was faster than plane Y" but rather "between alt 1 and alt 2 plane x was faster than plane y and between alt 2 and alt 3 plane y was faster than plane x"

If you loose a combat try to analyse your mistakes first. You may become a good pilot in the end and perhaps you won't need to put the blame on the fm anymore.

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by 41Sqn_Stormcrow

The 109 was reputed to have the superiour climb than the spit so I do not see anything wrong with this.

I do not know the tendency of speed but there might simply be no general "plane X was faster than plane Y" but rather "between alt 1 and alt 2 plane x was faster than plane y and between alt 2 and alt 3 plane y was faster than plane x"

If you loose a combat try to analyse your mistakes first. You may become a good pilot in the end and perhaps you won't need to put the blame on the fm anymore.

+1 truth.

[JG52Krupi]

Originally Posted by Hooves

Krupi, quit pretending that you aren't dripping with BIAS. Its pretty pathetic. Second, if you are in a 109 and you allow your self to get in a turn fight with a Spit, you DESERVE to get shot down.

I will post the video of a friend and I flying together comparing the 109 and Spit climb rates, needless to say the 109 walks away from the SPIT IIa like its standing still in a climb.


I really have to laugh when the RAF aircraft have been gutted and yet you cry for more nerfing, but yet also cry for more performance out your "unbiased" 109. Yet you offer no numbers, facts, or concrete evidence of the fact that SPIT's are superior.


Like someone else mentioned a good Spit Pilot against a average 109 pilot A spit can win (if he suckers the 109 into a turn fight).

But a good 109 and a good Spit, The Spit fire is doomed, speed is life. The Spit cant run away, or disengage a Z & B. If a 109 messes up he just runs for home. NO SPIT can catch a 109 in a FLAT out drag race.

100 OCtane isnt magical, its proven. Hell even the fuel tanks in the menu say 100 Octane on them.

You dont wanna get beat by a SPIT? Dont get suckered into his fight. You wanna Beat a 109? Get him to blow all his E in a right hand turn.

And you have the guts to call someone else a whiner?

hmmm i fly red and blue I want realistic FM's hello can anyone hear me... lol you are so pathetic hooves.

[6S.Manu]

Originally Posted by Hooves

Like someone else mentioned a good Spit Pilot against a average 109 pilot A spit can win (if he suckers the 109 into a turn fight).

The bolded part is not entirely true.

A good Spit pilot will enter the fight with energy advantage and will energy fight.

If he fail to kill the enemy until the energy states are equal (that's not easy: the 109 climbs better BUT he has to lose energy turning hard to avoid the Spit's high speed attacks) then he can turn too.. only in that case the quality of the 109's pilot matter.

TnB will always make you bleed energy and you will have to lose altitude to keep speed.

So the Spit's pilot should always try to kill the enemy in BnZ, ambushing it, like Johnnie Johnson did when he received his SpitIX.

You may turn fight but it's not mandatory. I like to say it the last thing to do.