Aircraft Videos and Images

[mazex]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

well I talked to my friend last weekend, it's the kinda person that tells you only what he can tell really, and what he said is that the RAF was definitely looking into a recovery, don't know much else for now.

As for the identity and speculation re. landing gear, I would say hold your horses fellas. Doing a landing gears down emergency landing on such a sandy/rocky surface is an easy way to get yourself killed: no sane pilot would ever do that, in fact I'd rather jump with a parachute than attempt an emergency landing.

That's the first thing that surprised me: why bothering doing an emergency landing when you can easily bail out? My conclusion is that the pilot must have been losing altitude and by the time he realised he had to abandon ship he was too low and the plane wouldn't gain altitude, so he tried to pancake it on the sand. The props show signs of rotation, so it means the engine was still running, albeit probably rough, when he touched the ground. The landing gear must have been up or in an unlocked position, there's no way you can put a taildragger down with gears out on the sand without flipping it.

Another thing, if the plane was part of a ferry flight (you never fly alone in over the desert, let alone if you're on a ferry flight with a damaged plane!), why didn't the rest of the flight pinpoint the location and radio the guy to wait there for a recovery? The LRP SAS would have been able to find the chap.

My guess is that somehow the fella got singled out and got lost.

It's always a bad idea to leave your aircraft when u land it in a remote area: the chances of surviving are higher if you stay in the same place and wait for someone to find you than venturing yourself out.

There was a similar discover in the 60s (although a bit grimmer), an S.79 was found by another oil scouting team, the rests of part of the crew still there. One of the members of crew was found some 150km away from the wreck, but still in the middle of the desert.

But still, doing a gear up landing on with a P-40 in the desert should not tear the wheels out of their bays a few hundred meters from the plane? At the same time like you say it's madness to land with the gear down as it really should top the aircraft over? Maybe he was too low to bail out when he realized he was loosing power? Maybe he was really scared of using the silk? I've had a parachute on my back hundreds of times but never used it - if the plane is still in one piece it takes a tough decision to bail out, especially if you can't bring the reserve water tucked away somewhere in the plane with you?

Speculations...

But like you say, a solo ferry flight in a damaged plane sounds weird - but the diary note seems to indicate that it was the case for that AC with the damaged undercarriage... In the middle of war there are maybe weird decisions taken?

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by mazex

But still, doing a gear up landing on with a P-40 in the desert should not tear the wheels out of their bays a few hundred meters from the plane?

there are a lot of rocks around, the wheels are turned towards the wing in a semi-retracted position, it wouldn't surprise me if they were torn apart.

Check this video of a Mustang doing a very bad (but relatively controlled) landing to get an idea of what happens to landing gears

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XuMylC7gSc

At the same time like you say it's madness to land with the gear down as it really should top the aircraft over? Maybe he was too low to bail out when he realized he was loosing power? Maybe he was really scared of using the silk? I've had a parachute on my back hundreds of times but never used it - if the plane is still in one piece it takes a tough decision to bail out, especially if you can't bring the reserve water tucked away somewhere in the plane with you?

Speculations...

But like you say, a solo ferry flight in a damaged plane sounds weird - but the diary note seems to indicate that it was the case for that AC with the damaged undercarriage... In the middle of war there are maybe weird decisions taken?

well yeah, definitely an unwise decision to fly solo in the desert, no matter if with an efficient aircraft or not. My guess again is that the landing gears were unlocked and hanging loose from the wings when he touched down, and even if he radioed a Mayday there's a fair chance he didn't give his position or the message wasn't picked up at all.

There are some deaths in war that are left untold just because you come to the sad realisation that they could have been avoided, had a wiser line of decision been taken.

[mazex]

Arghh! That is a truly awful landing and it's amazing that it did not end worse! He must have misjudged the flare completely due to low speed as he must have known the road was there? Looks like the Mustang has a gear the would fit for carrier landnings!

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by mazex

Arghh! That is a truly awful landing and it's amazing that it did not end worse! He must have misjudged the flare completely due to low speed as he must have known the road was there? Looks like the Mustang has a gear the would fit for carrier landnings!

yeah, that ramp got a couple of pilots before, there's a video of a B-17 doing the same, but thanks to the big wing lift the pilot managed to hold it without causing damage.

This is the main thing I think we miss in most sims (although a now ancient sim called "Fighter Squadron: The Screaming Demons Over Europe" had it): flexible/bendable airframes. Stuff does not simply break, it bends (and it does it a lot on airframes).

AFAIK there were trials for Mustangs on aircraft carriers, but laminar flow wings can be quite unforgiving

[BadAim]

The Mustang in the video lost power as it was coming in (did you notice the puff of smoke?) and the pilot had to let her settle well short of the runway, the berm that the plane hit was supposed to be the edge of the field. I would say that considering the circumstances, that was an excellent landing.

As for the speculation about landing versus parachuting, I can certainly see the reluctance to jump out of a perfectly land-able aircraft. Hartmann belly flopped some 17 or so aircraft before being forced to bail out of one that was literally falling apart. Parachutes were an unknown quantity, landing a plane was, even if it was damaged.

It will be interesting to find the real story. If it's indeed there to be found.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by BadAim

The Mustang in the video lost power as it was coming in (did you notice the puff of smoke?) and the pilot had to let her settle well short of the runway, the berm that the plane hit was supposed to be the edge of the field. I would say that considering the circumstances, that was an excellent landing.

yep, there was a failure with one of the camshaft gears if memory serves. The pilot could have put her down flawlessly had it not been for that stupid bank on the runway edge. With such a sudden power loss the pilot had pretty much little to do, all he could do was hanging on to the stick and hoping the Stang would keep its tail down. If it wasn't for that ramp it would have been just a rougher landing, but it's worth noting that even on such a hard hit only one landing gear leg bent slightly.

Here's Sally-B doing the same thing, although with all engines working all the pilot needed to do was give it a bit of throttle and help her down gently

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTnoH...feature=relmfu

As for the speculation about landing versus parachuting, I can certainly see the reluctance to jump out of a perfectly land-able aircraft. Hartmann belly flopped some 17 or so aircraft before being forced to bail out of one that was literally falling apart. Parachutes were an unknown quantity, landing a plane was, even if it was damaged.

It will be interesting to find the real story. If it's indeed there to be found.

well belly landing per se is a risky business with such aircraft on a rough field, let alone on a rocky desert! Don't forget you're coming down at 90-100 mph! We don't usually wear parachutes on the T-6, because it has such a sturdy wing that you can easily put it down in a field, but on the Mustang we always wear a chute: belly landing can be catastrophic because if it flips you're dead, since there's no armour headrest or protection frame to save the canopy from crushing. That's how the late Paul Morgan died unfortunately, and it's definitely an ugly way to go.

[bongodriver]

I was at Sywell the day Baby Gorilla flipped over, saw the whole incident unfold, really sad.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

I was at Sywell the day Baby Gorilla flipped over, saw the whole incident unfold, really sad.

I'm glad I wasn't there, I never met him but my friends there always told me he was an absolutely fantastic man he was. His P-51 Susy was a real cutie, it's in Germany now I think.