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| FM/DM threads Everything about FM/DM in CoD |
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#2
04-27-2012, 10:14 PM
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#3
04-28-2012, 12:26 AM
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Sorry, I've not found any operational use of 87 octane in Spitfires, Hurricanes and Defiants beyond spring 1940. There is quite a lot of documentation available on 100 octane use for Spitfires, Hurricanes and Defiants during the Battle of France, the Dunkirk evacuation and the Battle of Britain, however, to be found throughout this thread. The best I can offer is operational Lysanders and Battles using 87 octane during May 1940 - see links below. Sorry, but the Hurricanes were using 100 octane by then - also see links. H.Q. A.A.S.F. 7 May 1940. Reserve Stocks of Aviation Fuel, Bombs and S.A.A. - Policy H.Q. R.A.F. Component, 10 May 1940. Petrol and Oil requirements for R.A.F. Component on 15th May 1940. |
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#4
04-28-2012, 06:59 AM
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You are confusing a projection with what is one hand. |
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#5
04-28-2012, 09:29 AM
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Crumpp, why not present your full argument instead of the ridiculous nit picking of every minor detail, including just making stuff up without checking?
Go on, do it. Next post. You're now clinging on to the pilot's notes.. is that it? So hit me with the one bit of evidence thats so compelling that you still think FC were not using 100 oct during BoB Or are we still doing this because you think that because your're an expert in flying/engineering, that just makes whatever you say right...? I can go back through this thread and prove that there are lots of things that you've said that are simply wrong. You show me your argument and then I (or one of the others) will show you ours. I get the feeling you long since stopped arguing the point and are just arguing the man.. Why? What's your motivation? Last edited by winny; 04-28-2012 at 02:04 PM. |
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#6
04-28-2012, 11:28 AM
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Context, timeline...lol, sure no problem, we'll start with these:
     Emergency +12 lbs./sq. in. Boost Operation: Pilot's Notes, Merlin II, III and IV, 4th Edition, April 1940, page 6.  These documents relating to fuel requirments of the the Advanced Air Stiking Force and the Air Component, both in France during May 1940, give some idea of consumption, stocks, and how fuel requirements were calculated. As can be seen the Hurricanes used 100 octane, the Blenheim used a mix, while the Battle and Lysander used 87 octane, as did any transport, liason, visiting types etc.        To underscore the above documentation of Hurricanes using 100 octane fuel in France please note the following: S/L J. O. W. Oliver, 85 Squadron, 10 May 1940  P/O John Bushell, 151 Squadron, 18 May 1940  S/L E. M. Donaldon, 151 Sqdn., 18 May 1940 F/O Paul Richey, 1 Squadron, 11 May 1940  F/O E. J. Kain, 73 Squadron, 14 May 1940  P/O D. W. A. Stones, 79 Squadron, 14 May 1940  Sgt. R. C. Wilkinson, 3 Squadron, 14 may 1940  P/O R. P. Beamont, 87 Squadron, 15 May 1940  P/O F. B. Sutton, 56 Squadron, 18 May 1940  F/Lt. I. R. Gleed, 87 Squadron, 18 May 1940  F/O C. F. G. Adye, 17 Squadron, 18 May 1940 F/O C. F. G. Adye, 17 Squadron, 19 May 1940 F/Lt. I. R. Gleed, 87 Squadron, 19 May 1940  Sgt. L. H. B. Pearce, 79 Squadron, 20 May 1940  Sgt. J. C. Harrison, 229 Squadron, 28 May 1940  P/O C. M. Simpson, 229 Squadron, 29 May 1940  P/O K. B. McGlashan, 245 Squadron, 28 May 1940 
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#7
04-28-2012, 01:12 PM
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Great post lane
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#8
04-28-2012, 01:13 PM
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Yeah, section 3 subparagraph B that in your pipe and smoke it....
__________________
 Intel Q9550 @3.3ghz(OC), Asus rampage extreme MOBO, Nvidia GTX470 1.2Gb Vram, 8Gb DDR3 Ram, Win 7 64bit ultimate edition |
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#9
04-29-2012, 02:14 AM
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Even if we took every shred of evidence you have as gospel, it is not all operational units. That is the claim being made. The RAF had not converted to 100 Octane even in July 1940. There is not any 100 Octane in any quantity at the airfields until that then. That is the big logistical constraint noted in the very first memo you post. You have a handful of Hurricane squadrons, most of them taken from sources that belong alongside "First and the Last" by Adolf Galland. I have no doubts in May of 1940, the RAF was heavily into Phase IV testing. You have an order to convert with a huge logisitical constraint placed upon it. Fuel has to be at every airfield in quantity to support operations before any aircraft are converted. You also are using a projected calculation of fuel needs required to fight a future war that did not occur. Estabilishment is a logisitical term for quantity authorized. It has nothing to do with supplies on hand or available fuel. Here is estabilishment vs strength for RAF personnel: http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/...03-10c.54882.h When I get my computer back and get off this laptop, I can post the Estabilishment vs Strength for the RAF in the Battle of Britain. Lastly, the Operating Notes is definative. It is part of the aircraft airworthiness and is followed as instructed. The Notes on the Merlin Engine clearly documents when all operational units converted to 100 Octane. You can call me every name in the book, post whatever cartoon's you like but it does not change that fact. Last edited by Crumpp; 04-29-2012 at 02:21 AM. |
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#10
04-29-2012, 02:29 AM
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FYI, The engine manual is not the aircraft installation. Just because an engine is approved does not mean an aircraft is approved. Each installation is unique. That is why the RAF throughly tested all of the airframes using the Merlin engine when they made the conversion. The instructions for boost cut out would have been published as part of Phase IV testing. In fact, that is one of the main purposes of Phase IV testing to publish instructions, manuals, and conduct operations. A good example of that is auto fuel STC's. Just because the engine can run autofuel does not mean an airframe that mounts that engine can use autofuel. |
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