an idea to turn bob into true virtual reality

[TheFamilyMan]

Originally Posted by zapatista

...it could be implemented as an OPTION, where people select either "standard 6DoF" or something like "Wii enhanced 6DoF"...

I don't know about optics per se, but I do know about programming 3d graphics (I've done this professionally). TrackIR is an input device, nothing else, and it is up to application (i.e. game) to do something meaningful with it. This "standard 6DOF" vs. "wii 6DOF" is really BS. There is only 6DOF (6DOF: six degrees of freedom, e.g. x, y, z, axis translations and rotations); what matter is how the motion inputs are interpreted. If the app use Z axis motion (into the screen) as nothing more than to zoom in/out down the line of site, that's not 6DOF: it's 5DOF with Z axis magnification, i.e. 5DOF with decreased/increased field of view (FOV) . I do believe FSX got it right: axis translations actually moves your point of view in 3D space while your FOV remains constant, such that objects very close to you grow in size and objects very far away will not change in size (trust me, I speak from experience here). What matters alot in 3D rendering and "motion immersion" is the initial FOV: smaller is better, up to certain point. If it's too big, smaller motions (relative to the modelled world scale) don't give you that feeling of motion. I'd bet that wii demo used about a 60 degree FOV, which IMO is borderline too small but give a very nice motion effect: 90 is more common.

I own a TIR and have experienced it with IL-2 and FSX. With FSX, you literally can lean over to get a better view out the side of the canopy and it's very realistic (just like that standium shot in that wii demo). I've tried the IL-2 6DOF AAA mod and abandoned it for it seems more a nuciance than an enhancement (it's probably 5DOF with zoom). BTW, IL-2 currently supports only 2DOF trackIR motion: pitch (y-axis rotation) and yaw (x-axis rotation) which is far from the immersion of true 6DOF. I'm pretty sure SOW BOB already has got 6DOF TIR motion right: this stuff is nothin' new.

[raaaid]

that would be solved asigning zoom and forth motion of head at the same time to the 6th axe of 6d0f

think of this as something automatic to always show a realistic angular size of objects not zoom

[raaaid]

"I'd bet that wii demo used about a 60 degree FOV"

maybe im misunderstanding you here but this guy used a variable fov,

you can see that in the stadium part, this in order to achieve a looking through a window effect, notice when he gets close to the screen you see more of the stadium, just like a real window

thats the idea match zoom adecuately with distance to screen and knowing the size of the screen give a realistic size of objects by the window effect, that keeping the forth motion of head normally assigne to the 6th axe of 6dof

[TheFamilyMan]

I'm curious raaaid, do you own a TIR? Ever used FSX with TIR?

I think that most of Lurch1962 explanation borders on BS (a 140 degree FOV rendering would look like a bad hallucination). I work for an areospace corp, and I've designed and developed 3D visualization applications using OpenGL. If you could step into my office, I could show you on my whiteboard what is really going on with this stuff and then you'd understand.

[raaaid]

well your experience on 3d vs my 7 years study of perspective

lurch explains it very well:

if you take the 90º fov and put the crosshair on a corner of the screen it will make an ellipse, but if you look at the ovalated cross hair from a determined point, say 30cm from your screen more or less, youll see the ellipse as a perfect circle, try it

with this method distortion is inexistent however the fov

i dont own a trackir nor tried fsx 6dof but i need not this in order to understand how it works, in fact i invented independely 6dof and by this i mean i was posting in the ubi forums about a 3 axes tracker at least 2 year prior to its apperance in the market and i bet with this will be the same, i wonder wholl get the glory and the money for this idea

i dont want to be mean but your suggestion that this wii video uses a 60º fov proofs you havent understood my idea


the idea is to make the screen appear as a real window via head tracker, as simple as that

[Former_Older]

raaaid, you don't have a reputation as being a "bad person". I've never seen you say anything bad to anyone; in fact this "you don't deserve me" business is the harshest thing I've ever seen you post

You *do* have a reputation for having not thought through ideas and using shaky principles to 'prove' them, though...this has been shown, for years, at UbiSoft and, according to you actually, on various physics forums. You rush through your concepts, and you don't consider all parameters. That's a big part of what you've shown over seven years of your study

I did not make that situation come to pass; you did. I'm sorry you didn't make good science on your many ideas, but it's the facts and no matter how sorry I am, it doesn't change that your ideas are usually based on flawed principles or else fail to take critical things into account. Even when you're not talking about sim applications.

Personally after the first dozen or so of these ideas of yours I stopped taking you seriously in any way. I just can't do it, I can't consider what you're suggesting as being relevant to the actual application you want in the sim. That's my experience over the years. I haven't seen anything from you that tells me that your ideas are achieving anything that we can't already have, or else trade one undesirable situation for a different but new one. I don't know how many years that is, but it's easily five.

I don't think you're a bad person; I think your ideas are flawed, and I think that's why they never seem to work out

[raaaid]

well the only thing i ask for is in the future when every game include this feature that the future generations know this was developed by a guy thinking outside the box and as proof i was the 1st to have this idea search the ubizoo for "gunsight effect"

in fact this idea has brought back my interest in perspective, i got bored with it not finding any flaw in reality, but now i know how to render a perfect virtual wolrd on a screen im wondering how it could be done ZOOMED, because in the real world you can use binoculars and reality renders on your eyes, the flat surface, a perfectly correct zoomed image

[TheFamilyMan]

Originally Posted by Former_Older

raaaid, you don't have a reputation as being a "bad person". I've never seen you say anything bad to anyone; in fact this "you don't deserve me" business is the harshest thing I've ever seen you post

You *do* have a reputation for having not thought through ideas and using shaky principles to 'prove' them, though...this has been shown, for years, at UbiSoft and, according to you actually, on various physics forums. You rush through your concepts, and you don't consider all parameters. That's a big part of what you've shown over seven years of your study

I did not make that situation come to pass; you did. I'm sorry you didn't make good science on your many ideas, but it's the facts and no matter how sorry I am, it doesn't change that your ideas are usually based on flawed principles or else fail to take critical things into account. Even when you're not talking about sim applications.

Personally after the first dozen or so of these ideas of yours I stopped taking you seriously in any way. I just can't do it, I can't consider what you're suggesting as being relevant to the actual application you want in the sim. That's my experience over the years. I haven't seen anything from you that tells me that your ideas are achieving anything that we can't already have, or else trade one undesirable situation for a different but new one. I don't know how many years that is, but it's easily five.

I don't think you're a bad person; I think your ideas are flawed, and I think that's why they never seem to work out

Thanks Former_Older! I'm new around here and I was wondering this myself: now I know better.