Talk about how to include the tanks gameplay

[tintifaxl]

For me the only role a tank plays in CloD is bomb bait. A target for my plane, nothing more. If it is AI or some poor sod sits in it doesn't matter to me anyway. I will not play as a tanker, when I could fly a warbird. Simple as that.

And when the human tankers realize they are at the mercy of the IL2s, Stukas, JU-88s hopefully later on the Jugs, Typhoons and Tempests they will quit the game real fast.

[swiss]

Originally Posted by tintifaxl

And when the human tankers realize they are at the mercy of the IL2s, Stukas, JU-88s hopefully later on the Jugs, Typhoons and Tempests they will quit the game real fast.

Do you actually play any FPS, or other, games with super short life expectancy?
My average LE in AA3 is around 80sec, k/d ~.7:1. Sux, yet I still like it.
Furthermore you should not expect the tanks to stand still and wait for you to bomb them.

[csThor]

@ swiss + baron

I know that my description also fits most DF servers, but that actually underscores my doubts about the possibility to incorporate ground vehicles. If only because of one basic fact (which nobody can discuss away and which no amount of wishful thinking can gloss over): The most successful advances by german Panzer Divisions were around 100 to 120 km per day. An aircraft makes that distance in perhaps twenty minutes (if we're dawdling, that is). There's a fundamental difference in scope when it comes to piloting as opposed to driving a tank and that difference makes for very different layouts of missions.

[TomcatViP]

Frankly as one that will probably never sat in any ground vehicule in CoD unless I have to per mission design, I still think that devs are building here something cool that will certainly found its place in the gaming universe.

Regarding aerial bombing of tanks may I remind you that a specific 1944 US studies concluded that ionly 2 to 4% of bombs scored a direct hit

One thing is for sure, the interaction btw grd player and flyers would be huge with dozen of sorties to claim a single kill.

"Tanks plinking" became a "reality" much more latter

[addman]

Originally Posted by tintifaxl

For me the only role a tank plays in CloD is bomb bait. A target for my plane, nothing more. If it is AI or some poor sod sits in it doesn't matter to me anyway. I will not play as a tanker, when I could fly a warbird. Simple as that.

And when the human tankers realize they are at the mercy of the IL2s, Stukas, JU-88s hopefully later on the Jugs, Typhoons and Tempests they will quit the game real fast.

Yeah right! So easy, have you noticed how hard it is to spot a single vehicle/tank in CloD especially when you don't even know exactly where to look? I remember making a train busting mission in CloD where I put like 3 seperate trains with wagons in a certain area on the English countryside. After flying all the way from Calais in my Bf-110 and spent like 20 mins looking for any of those trains and didn't find anything even though I knew the approximate area where they were supposed to be.

Also, if you saw that video in the last Friday update you could hear the planes buzzing above from the ground. If I'm in a tank and hear that sound I'll be sure to drive under some trees and sit still, good luck spotting anything.

[tintifaxl]

Originally Posted by addman

... Also, if you saw that video in the last Friday update you could hear the planes buzzing above from the ground. If I'm in a tank and hear that sound I'll be sure to drive under some trees and sit still, good luck spotting anything.

Trees and grass are of course disabled, houses at minumum in a competitive multiplayer environment. Now try to hide

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by tintifaxl

Trees and grass are of course disabled, houses at minumum in a competitive multiplayer environment. Now try to hide

Why hide?

Or do you think the vehicals shown in the videos thus far are the only vehicals they are ever going to make?

I think not.. I fully expect that you will see not only fixxed base AAA but mobal AAA like this



So I wouldn't loose any sleep over it thinking your going to be at the mercy of planes.

[sorak]

I just cant wait until they start doing Helicopters... Ive allways wanted some helicopters in this game. I know they hinted about the Gyro Copter they supposnly said they were messing around with but still never heard anything about it.

but man it would be fun to blow them out the sky

[Chivas]

Originally Posted by tintifaxl

Trees and grass are of course disabled, houses at minumum in a competitive multiplayer environment. Now try to hide

That won't be a problem, the server will decide what graphics level your game will be set at.

[Les]

I can imagine at least two combined-arms mission types, with four objectives to choose from, that could make use of tanks or other ground vehicles or artillery.

1. Attack and capture a position.

2. Defend and maintain control over a position.


3. Get from point A to point B.

4. Stop opposition from getting from point A to point B.


With the current state of the AI control capabilities (and come to think of it, even if they were perfected), these game-modes would be most playable in some kind of co-op mode with re-spawn available.

Each team would have enough tank and plane slots to allow the players to make a tactical decision about what ratio of planes to tanks (or other vehicles or artillery) they want to use.

The maps would be large enough to force the planes to have to fly from distant spawn points, so they don't spawn directly over the tanks or the objective being fought over. But the tanks would spawn closer to the objective so they don't have to drive for too long and so the tanks and planes will converge roughly in the same area.

I don't see map-balance issues being any more difficult to achieve than with any other kind of game-play. If the map is well made and you make the wrong choices as a team, or don't work together to achieve the map objective, you lose, nothing new there.

Having played ground attack missions in the original IL-2 series (online and offline), and having played territory-capture tanking maps in the original Red Orchestra game, I think the inclusion of tanks and other vehicles and playable artillery in the new IL-2 series opens up the potential for some of the most engaging ground and air combat ever.

And no, on a macro scale, I doubt we'll have the player numbers to recreate any historical scenarios, but on a micro scale, from the point of view of the tank driver or pilot who has a specific limited mission to accomplish, I think the potential is there to show very realistically how difficult it would have been to have done what they did in real life.

Ground pounding is hard and requires skill, and with human opposition in the air with you, it's even harder. Intercepting ground pounders is also difficult, especially if they have escorts.

Taking and holding (and/or defending) territory in a tank is also difficult, especially against human players. It's a tactical affair, even when it gets down to one on one. Having to consider the possibility the opposition might get through and attack you from above adds a whole other level to your tactical considerations.

I do think though the potential is there for the ground aspect of the game to become the best of it's kind and draw in new players to the IL-2 series.

I think if the developers cover a few certain basics in the implementation of ground vehicles and artillery it will be up to the players to make of it what they will. It may turn out people find the tanking or ground-pounding too hard to do with realistic settings, but if using easier settings helps overcome limits of the computer-gaming medium itself, so be it.

The devs may also have to introduce some new game features though, in order to get planes and ground vehicles working together properly. I'm thinking along the lines of new map features (to help with capturing territory etc.) and new re-spawn features (giving, for example, the ground-pounders an option to re-arm at a closer base than the one they would spawn from at the start or if they were destroyed). That's all to be seen though.

To be honest, I have no expectation that the potential of the game will be fully realized, on the ground or in the air, but only because I don't want those expectations to lead to dissappointment. I'll definitely keep an eye on developments though, and support the team in their efforts to fix and refine and add new features to the sim, because you never know, as long as they keep trying they just might succeed.