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#1
04-02-2008, 06:22 PM
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While the rightness or wrongness of Gozr's post is indeed debateable... that there is some good stuff coming from AAA there is no question. That is a fact. I don't know about any of the other mod communities... and I am still flying mod free... but some of the stuff coming from AAA is good. A lot of it is good.
I just hope that Oleg takes whatever code for the "wingman/ attack my target" command is there and somehow modifies it and applies it to the wingman/ cover me command so that when the AI wingman is asked to cover you he doesn't go flying off on a vector 90-180 degrees while you get your virtual @ss handed to you by some bandit on your 6 that, btw your wingman is flying right next to if not right behind as he goes off to do who knows what other than cover your tail. That is my biggest gripe with the sim.. I don't mind the ace enemy AI.. it is the all too often brain dead friendly AI that drives me nuts.... but I digress .... AS I said .. I cant speak much for the other mod sites... but the AAA site should not be lumped up with some of the others I have heard about... and perhaps some sort of compromise is in order.... |
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#2
04-02-2008, 07:50 PM
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Well said Bearcat 
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#4
04-02-2008, 08:00 PM
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#5
04-02-2008, 08:20 PM
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Yvan you are confusing and confused.. just relax... why not trying to resolve something for change.. There is a big amount of potential imo.
Why not doing something out of the commun .. something progressive and not destructive ? Last edited by GOZR; 04-02-2008 at 08:23 PM. |
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#6
04-02-2008, 09:25 PM
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#7
04-02-2008, 11:55 PM
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Gozr's choice of words is not the best.... because let's face it, unless I am getting something completely wrong here even the "new" stuff that the modders are making is not really "new" per se... it is modified, repackaged old stuff.. But the basic point he is making is a good one.. and that point is.... there is a lot coming from one mod site in particular, (the only one I know of.. since I don't do mods thus far so I don't know all the places.. but I am sure there are at least a few more... ) that would have been GREAT stuff to have had added to the sim by the 1C team. Is it better than Oleg's team? In true quality? I doubt it.... best analogy I can come up with is that Oleg built this sim on the atomic level... and the work of the modders is on the molecular level... and no matter what they do it will always be on the molecular level so it wont have the same ...... dynamism for lack of a better term as Oleg's work done on the atomic level... but .... it is still some good stuff. I would love to be able to skin the statics..... which I still cannot do... unless I use the mods.... or skin ships..... or have more maps in the QMB... or have a K-14 on a P-47.. or have a loadout for rockets on a P-51... or have HVARs on a P-47... and I could go on... but as I said.. I still cannot do that... unless I mod up... which I have chosen not to do as of yet..... but the fact that these guys can offer those things is a good thing with hindsight... and I would hope that if these guys "only care about the sim" as so many of them have said... that they would be more than willing to have their "mods" incorporated into the sim if Oleg was willing to make whatever corrections that could or had to be made to make it more seamless.. Yes I know.. wishfull thinking perhaps on my part... but it would be nice. I think all Gozr is saying is that things many thought were impossible were not impossible.... I never thought it was... I always thought that it was just a matter of priorities.. and 1C's priority was not and is not fulfilling every single wish of every single member of this community.. [i]especially for free[i]... which is as it should not be. I hope that if nothing else the things I mentioned above .. and yes I know it is purely selfish of me.. because there are probably as many "wishists" as there are community members... but I would hope that some of thiose things could be less painfully added to the sim by 1C... since .. lets face it.. how can you have proprietary rights on wrongfully obtained modifications? |
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#8
04-03-2008, 01:05 AM
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In the case of the maps, that's simply not true, bearcat, with all due respect.
The map is the map. If anything, the stock maps were molecular, and the new maps are "atomic." That goes for modder built as well as the "official" player map making teams doing stuff like Burma/Slovakia/Bessarabia, etc. They are simply better in every way than the 1C/RRG maps. Period. It's not because they are not limited by system specs, either. It's map-size independent. The new maps use some techniques not used (possibly not available, certainly on the original il-2) like the use of (free) SRTM data for elevation maps. What they also have is attention to detail, and a little lateral thinking. Ian's maps are better, for example, because he's damn skilled, and he cares. The stock maps, and PF maps for the most part simply do not show that anyone cared at some level. Copy and pasted airfields, for example. I always assumed that only a few airfield types were possible, not that the only limit on airfield appearance was bothering to make them look the way you want. Look at the towns, too. Modders built an app to populate the terrain tile that have streets with buildings along the streets instead of sort of randomly placed. The bones are GREAT, no one argues that. Really, top notch! But for map making it is exactly analogous to mission/campaign creation, it's entirely the product of user skill and attention to detail, nothing else. tater |
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#9
04-03-2008, 10:34 AM
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Maps like Kurland, Norway, Burma, Bessarabia, etc.... took several hundreds of hours to be completed (not even counting testing and corrections). For Slovakia, we know it's a several thousands of hours. Let's imagine M:1C would have decided to do all the map with the quality work of Slovakia. Because they're used to the tools and pro, it could have took them "only" a thousand of hours per map... with around 12 maps to start, that's around 6 years of man-work (so 3 peoples working full time during 2 years). .... this in addition to all the rest (graphic engine, planes, FM, AI, etc, etc, etc...) You must remember that M:1C is a very small team... and choices had to be done about priorities. Maps were probably not ultra-high on the priority scale... especially since they allready took a lot of time to choose the solution (those who have followed IL2 dev before the release remember that different options were envisaged for the map making... including the use of satellite image textures, who was abandonned because too ressource-heavy for the PC of that time), leaving a few time to developp the map tools and then the map themthelves. After the release they where allways overloaded... that's why Oleg considered to give the map tools to some choosen external teams. I have no doubt that now the code is cracked, external teams can do some excellent work with map making... especially in low-populated areas (PTO, desert, etc). But I doubt very much they will complete "slovakia-style" maps on european areas in less than 2/3 years (it took 3 years to a very dedicated team to do the Slovakia map). ... In any case, I wont fly with any of the mods... I'm now waiting for SoW and KotS. Still, I agree that PF was released too early, with a work that was mostly unfinished and that the choice of maps was far to be perfect. |
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