Infographic of the Day: The Debt Superhighway

[salmo]

Yes, the Eurozone's in trouble with some 3 trillion Euro of debt. That's paultry compared to the United States public debt of $15.4 trillion USD (about 11.7 trillion Euro). Governments have failed their citizens by spending more than they recieve over an extended period of time. This is unsustainable. Whatever your political persuasion, the only solution is to reign in Government spending & increase Government income.

[JG52Krupi]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

here is an interesting, even if rather long, read =>

http://savecapitalism.files.wordpres...vilization.pdf

I think I will not bother reading that... A look into the death of civilization from a website called save capitalism... Oh the irony!!!

We call ourselves a civilization but all we do is try and undermine and screw each other over for little bits of paper with ink on which is then is put into a bank and ceases to exist in the real world, instead it turns into a series of numbers in the digital world... The human race as a civilization can be summed up using one word... Pathetic.

[5./JG27.Farber]

I found a good video about this the other day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiJa9diJOMk

This is basically what happened, in America and is the reason for this. Except the piece of paper was called a "derivative". More derivatives have been sold than the money that exists in the banking system of the entire world....

[JG52Uther]

As the immortal Eddie from 'The Young Ones' once said:
'Look, you get born, you keep your head down, and then you die.'
The sooner people realise we're screwed, and its not really going to get much better in our lifetime at least, the better everyone will be, so you might as well come to terms with it. Living in debt was never going to end well, I'm surprised we lasted as long as we did.

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by JG52Krupi

I think I will not bother reading that... A look into the death of civilization from a website called save capitalism... Oh the irony!!!

Its always a bit saddening to see anyone judging a book by its cover though... please read it before passing judgement?

[JG52Krupi]

I will read it but the name of the website makes me want to puke, what has capitalism ever done for civilisation?

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by JG52Krupi

I will read it but the name of the website makes me want to puke, what has capitalism ever done for civilisation?

capitalism, socialism, fascism any other ism........none of them have benefited civilization because they all suffer from one common problem........a greedy and power hungry elite that sit at the top.

[JG52Krupi]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

capitalism, socialism, fascism any other ism........none of them have benefited civilization because they all suffer from one common problem........a greedy and power hungry elite that sit at the top.

So true , we are our own worst enemy.

[Wolf_Rider]

That's right; none of the "isms" have worked (in their own right)... and "capitalism" in itself (in concept) isn't a bad thing but the world is in the grip of a new "ism" at the moment, and that "ism" is Corporatism.
Think of corporatism as an extreme of capitalism as much as totalitarianism is an extreme of socialism (of which, socialism isn't a bad thing in itself either and socialism can't survive without capitalism, yet both need to work together not for their own right).

and yes, greed, power and the subsequent corruption buggers things up every time.

[Blackdog_kt]

I think the problem is that states are governed by middle-men that work for specific industrial/economic firms and not their citizens.

I live in Greece and nobody knows where the money we owe went or what we did with them, but we're called upon to pay them back. This year they instituted an extra tax for house owners that comes in your power bill. If you don't pay the tax they cut off your power. Essentially, they found a way to make people pay rent for their own property.

The ones who know where the money went are:

a) the ruling elite of the country (PMs/ministers/etc of years past)
b) a few middlemen that secure sales for their companies in various industries and
c) the politicians in other EU countries

They all pretend to know nothing, but what usually happens is this:
-Greece wants to buy some frigates or aircraft (let's take this example, as it's quite expensive and well covered in local media).

-The chiefs of staff will state requirements for a competition.

-The political leadership will ignore the military's specs and do its own thing. If the PM or defense minister is pro-US he'll back the Super Hornet, but the economy minister who is pro-German will promote the Typhoon, etc, etc

-They will buy whatever the political power struggle decides and then it's time for the bonus contract items like technology transfer.

-This is where the complicit nature of other EU partners kicks in: it's cheaper for EADS or KMW to pay money to a Greek official to select their system, than pay for technology/manufacturing transfer like it would be done in a normal contract.

So, in other words, Greece buys a lot of stuff it needs, at inflated prices that go in the pockets of local sharks, in order to keep the EU industry going, with money loaned from EU banks.

Just for fun, let's see some examples. Greece, a measly 10 million people, absorbs about 16% of Germany's defense exports and maintains armed forces 50% the size of the German ones (a country with 7 times bigger population), bought a bunch of Leopard 2s but the ammo for them was in a separate contract (and they asked 50 million for the cannon rounds) and is forced to keep buying if it wants to get the so called "bail out" loans. I kid you not, this is stipulated in the papers these geniuses signed.

We're supposed to be taxed to hell, while paying for weapons from specific providers and we are not allowed to merge our debts with the debts of others toward us (like for example the loan Germany got from Greece during the occupation in WWII, that's not war reparations it's clearly stated in the records that it's a loan and it's not paid yet).

All in all, the plan is to get the country deeper and deeper in debt and in a position that it cannot defend itself or exercise dominion rights, so that one day a few high profile companies can come in and say:

"Hey, don't pay back the money you owe that bank. Let me drill for oil in your seas and i'll keep whatever i can get".

Fun fact: Just south of Crete alone and within the Greek exclusive economic zone, the hydrocarbon deposits are estimated to be enough to pay off our entire debt and then some. It was disputed at first, but since deposits tend to run in neighboring regions and seeing how Cyrpus hit the jackpot, most people in the field believe that the deposits extend to the south of Crete too.

But the local leadership here prefers to makes us completely broke first and then pass them off to someone else. Why? Because most probably they're getting paid by them. Nobody is so stupid, but many are treacherous enough

And who's them? Not the German people or the other European citizens, the average German hasn't had a pay raise in the past 10 years.

It's the people who run Europe and want to sacrifice the south hoping to delay their own demise by skinning the southern countries alive. The same countries that borrow money from northern Europe's banks to buy from and keep northern Europe's industries in business. If the south is gone, the north will soon follow. And since the south seems to be gone anyway (it also has to deal with the immigration waves caused by the wars that - surprise - the north usually pursues), the pervading sentiment is to pillage them for all they are worth to delay the fall of the north.

And just like the leaderships are at each other's throats like this, they pass it on to their citizens too: they screw up for all of us, while we are busy blaming each other...the Germans think we're lazy, the Greeks think the Germans are trying to take revenge for WWII and we're too busy with all that to see what's really happening: the sale of nation-states to private interests

I think the time is close to repeat what Roosevelt said during the 1929 crisis to the big money companies: "give up your hats so you don't lose your heads". Otherwise sooner or later, in no particular order, we are all going to become slaves under a false pretense of democracy.

Capitalism? Sure, but not in a way that puts companies above states. Companies thrive because of states, the people work, pay taxes and go to the army, that's what creates the framework of stability wherein private business thrives. So, when a business becomes to big for its shoes, it's the state's job to remind it that "you only got here because of me, so i'm calling the shots". Too bad the policy makers in Europe are too soft for that