Request to the moderators

[klem]

Originally Posted by theOden

I'm not sure I understand the goal here.

All cheers and happiness in the update thread and all critizism and the unhappy customers in a seperate thread held away in some sub forum to to be seen by potentially new customers?

Will possibly "sensible" posts be screened by you and then, if approved, moved up to the update thread?

If this one doesn't remind me of news from East Germany and Soviet Russia back when I was young, I guess nothing would.

Feel free to censor me, I'm starting to get the picture how things are done in here. Seen how people like Tree and furbs putting up hard questions aren't getting answered but rather moderated away this suggestion of post #1 would not surprise me to be seen put into action.

Maybe extend the forum beyond "moderator" and denote some memebers as "Political Commisar", like Klem and maybe that odd Ace-man?

The goal is to obtain clear information from the developers and to provide the opportunity to ask or to see clear questions specifically on the update information and find the devs answers.

There are no sinister intentions here. Don't confuse suppressive censorship with trying to keep important Threads meaningful, on topic and free of Trolls.

I am a forum user just like you but I get sick of wading through a pile of vitriol and often childish arguments when what I want from an update thread is to easily find the information it gives and to see relevant questions and answers. There are plenty of threads where people can argue themselves blue in the face and hurl insults at eachother if they want.

I think you must see that many posts in the last update thread were just a battle of personalised vitriol and repeated complaints that we've all seen so many times before and that do not specifically reference the update information. Its not that some of the complaints aren't valid and I understand that more recent purchasers of CoD will want to come here and register their point of view but that isn't what the update threads are for. Do we really have to wade through all of that every time to find the useful information? My suggestion is simply that certain Threads be given a special status that keeps them useful.

As for members that get a ban, some of them seem to enjoy only being deliberately and boringly provocative on the same old subjects, again and again and again and again, questions that have already been answered, again and again and again. It reduces them to Trolls and personally I'm glad the moderators are taking a stronger line. I come here to find useful information and help if I can, not to wade through a pile of nonsense that wouldn't be tolerated in a kids classroom.

[Osprey]

Thank you klem for another sensible and reasonable suggestion.

I am sick to death of the whiners. I respect that people have opinions but I find it all so massively destructive and damaging therefore worthy of removal.

The internet is a very easy place to make a nasty comment and hide, I imagine not one of these people would dare go to 'support' their favourite sports team, stand in the crowd each week and launch a volley of abuse for the whole game. There is no anonymity to hide into. Cowards, all of them.

[6BL Bird-Dog]

Originally Posted by klem

The goal is to obtain clear information from the developers and to provide the opportunity to ask or to see clear questions specifically on the update information and find the devs answers.

There are no sinister intentions here. Don't confuse suppressive censorship with trying to keep important Threads meaningful, on topic and free of Trolls.

I am a forum user just like you but I get sick of wading through a pile of vitriol and often childish arguments when what I want from an update thread is to easily find the information it gives and to see relevant questions and answers. There are plenty of threads where people can argue themselves blue in the face and hurl insults at eachother if they want.

I think you must see that many posts in the last update thread were just a battle of personalised vitriol and repeated complaints that we've all seen so many times before and that do not specifically reference the update information. Its not that some of the complaints aren't valid and I understand that more recent purchasers of CoD will want to come here and register their point of view but that isn't what the update threads are for. Do we really have to wade through all of that every time to find the useful information? My suggestion is simply that certain Threads be given a special status that keeps them useful.

As for members that get a ban, some of them seem to enjoy only being deliberately and boringly provocative on the same old subjects, again and again and again and again, questions that have already been answered, again and again and again. It reduces them to Trolls and personally I'm glad the moderators are taking a stronger line. I come here to find useful information and help if I can, not to wade through a pile of nonsense that wouldn't be tolerated in a kids classroom.

+1

[Ribbs67]

Sorry 6BL Birddog.... That im requsting this right after your post.. but while were on the topic of keeping the update thread clean, I wish we could get rid of all the "quoted" + 1... And +100000 posts also. I find them very redundant, and not needed. I feel like they clog up the thread just as much as the Trolling thats going on. I read the update by Luthier and BlackSix and thought it was a decent update, but it took about 5-6 posts for the negativity to start flowing in. 30+ pages in like 10hrs of being posted.. ridiculous. The moderators cant be around 24-7 to ensure the thread dosent become poluted.. I see the only option would be to have the update thread locked from the beginning and have a seperate discussion thead all together. That way people cant say they are being censored... Just redirected.....

[nearmiss]

Originally Posted by klem

The goal is to obtain clear information from the developers and to provide the opportunity to ask or to see clear questions specifically on the update information and find the devs answers.

There are no sinister intentions here. Don't confuse suppressive censorship with trying to keep important Threads meaningful, on topic and free of Trolls.

I am a forum user just like you but I get sick of wading through a pile of vitriol and often childish arguments when what I want from an update thread is to easily find the information it gives and to see relevant questions and answers. There are plenty of threads where people can argue themselves blue in the face and hurl insults at eachother if they want.

I think you must see that many posts in the last update thread were just a battle of personalised vitriol and repeated complaints that we've all seen so many times before and that do not specifically reference the update information. Its not that some of the complaints aren't valid and I understand that more recent purchasers of CoD will want to come here and register their point of view but that isn't what the update threads are for. Do we really have to wade through all of that every time to find the useful information? My suggestion is simply that certain Threads be given a special status that keeps them useful.

As for members that get a ban, some of them seem to enjoy only being deliberately and boringly provocative on the same old subjects, again and again and again and again, questions that have already been answered, again and again and again. It reduces them to Trolls and personally I'm glad the moderators are taking a stronger line. I come here to find useful information and help if I can, not to wade through a pile of nonsense that wouldn't be tolerated in a kids classroom.

I have been active member on these boards for over 5 years, most of the time as a lone moderator. I've learned to respect the members and opinions. Yes we have errant posters, which will always be the case.

This thread created by you is evidence of moderator tolerance. The forums rules prohibit criticism of moderators. Our moderators know that all update threads eventually become a venue for negative posters. Go back and review some of them. Moderators would prefer negative posters be contained on that thread, than extend their transgression range into the rest of the forums.

I respect the fact you are a veteran poster here and you are being accorded some slack. Don't tell us how to moderate or make accusations. This is the busiest IL2 and COD forums on the internet. We have an excellent team of experienced, intelligent and tolerant moderators.

The tone of your posting indicates your frustration. I suggest you might want to think to spend time on another forums where you will be more comfortable. Drop back in every now and then to get the latest COD news.

[Ribbs67]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

I have been active member on these boards for over 5 years, most of the time as a lone moderator. I've learned to respect the members and opinions. Yes we have errant posters, which will always be the case.

This thread created by you is evidence of moderator tolerance. The forums rules prohibit criticism of moderators. Our moderators know that all update threads eventually become a venue for negative posters. Go back and review some of them. Moderators would prefer negative posters be contained on that thread, than extend their transgression range into the rest of the forums.

I respect the fact you are a veteran poster here and you are being accorded some slack. Don't tell us how to moderate or make accusations. This is the busiest IL2 and COD forums on the internet. We have an excellent team of experienced, intelligent and tolerant moderators.

The tone of your posting indicates your frustration. I suggest you might want to think to spend time on another forums where you will be more comfortable. Drop back in every now and then to get the latest COD news.

Nearmiss...I really don't think that was his intentions at all with this thread. He is frustrated as we all are of the way the threads spiral out of control with in hours of Luthier and BlackSix posting. We all realize that there isn't always a moderator present at all times, and you are right about how busy these forums are.(there could be atleast 5-10 pages of banter before a moderator makes it in)... You guys do the best job you can, trying to keep things civil around here.. but its a vicious and never ending battle. Klem is one of the most helpful guys out there when it comes to offering to help people in need of getting there game running. He wasn't attacking you, nor telling you how to do your job.. he was offering up a suggestion. I respect your position of authority, but I feel that response was a bit unwarranted....He definitely is a voice of reason, and does what he can to help make this sim succeed.... S!

I will humbly accept my ban now...

[nearmiss]

Ribbs67

Moderating is a volunteer job. We get email notification of reported postings, which is the best way to get our attention.

Most of the time we don't have time to "relate" with members personally.

When members consistently maintain a sensible demeanor and do not cause trouble they are often overlooked... as you reminded me of a helpful poster.

When you become a moderator it is like becoming a linesman for a soccer/football match. You miss the match, because you have to watch and flag infractions.

Moderators generally do not have time to participate in forums discussions...or "watch the match"

[klem]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

I have been active member on these boards for over 5 years, most of the time as a lone moderator. I've learned to respect the members and opinions. Yes we have errant posters, which will always be the case.

This thread created by you is evidence of moderator tolerance. The forums rules prohibit criticism of moderators. Our moderators know that all update threads eventually become a venue for negative posters. Go back and review some of them. Moderators would prefer negative posters be contained on that thread, than extend their transgression range into the rest of the forums.

I respect the fact you are a veteran poster here and you are being accorded some slack. Don't tell us how to moderate or make accusations. This is the busiest IL2 and COD forums on the internet. We have an excellent team of experienced, intelligent and tolerant moderators.

The tone of your posting indicates your frustration. I suggest you might want to think to spend time on another forums where you will be more comfortable. Drop back in every now and then to get the latest COD news.

nearmiss, I'm a bit confused. Perhaps I didn't explain myself properly.
I am not criticising the moderators or trying to tell them how to do their job. I was asking for help in what are, to me at least, important communications from 1C/BlackSix/Luthier etc.. I don't mean the run of the mill Threads.

Please let me explain that I don't think it's making accusations to say that some threads get buried under a lot of rubbish or that some posters seem to have a self-indulgent agenda. If I have developed the view that some posts are vitriol or some posters are deliberately provocative its because thats how they seem to me but none of my posts in this thread accuse any individual, its a general observation. Many moderators agree the problem exists. I don't care about that as long as it doesn't bury the company's useful information. That's what this request is about.

Spending time somewhere else and only dropping back every now and then is precisely what I don't want to do for two reasons. One, I want to keep as up to date as possible and two, if I don't visit the forums regularly how am I ever going to find the useful information under the pile of rubbish that accumulates on top of it?

You say I can report posts but what happens if I report 225 posts as 'Off Topic' or 'offensive' or 'obstructive' to me because thay prevent me finding Blacksix's answers withput spending two hours trawling through them all?

Perhaps one answer is to ignore anything past page 3 (I cant say "after 3 days" because in just 2 days there are already 330+ posts to get through).

Anyway, if the moderator's position (I don't know how you arrive at a decision) is that the request can't be granted, there's nothing I can do about it but I have to say the important threads are being made useless by the amount of rubbish that piles onto them.

Just to be clear, are the moderators saying the request can't be granted?

[SG1_Lud]

I dont see in this thread any critic to the moderator's job, specially I re read klem's and I don't think that is the intention.

The thread's title says it all. Is a request, not a critic. I dont know if there are enough users who share in more or less degree the request of the OP, I even don't know if my own proposal somewhere here is a valid one ( to lock the official updates) because if I think of it in a cold manner, I could get the same effect moderating myself to read only the first post, or using the filters to read only BS or Luthier's post.

What I feel is that is a fact that some users are really concerned about the way that the official updates is cluttered with posts that fall in one of the following categories: irrespectful or insulting to the artist, offtopic, or arguing with other users about x and effectively derailing the thread.... To name the most important ones that come to my head.

Not all opinions are acceptable in a official thread, which is one of the few places where we interact with the developers, if not the only, it is like if I am invited to an public presentation of any kind, lets say a book, and I start to critic the organization, the food, the flowers, and I even express loud out so every one, including the host, that I feel cheated having bought the book and that some other known writer does it 100 times better, and you should learnt of him. Sorry but this would be an opinion, but not an acceptable one. I have some other places to express that opinion, right?. But dont confuse freedom of speech with lack of common sense.


Now to put some examples, what I like to find in an official thread is an interaction with the OP, like

Expressing gratefulness to the developer.
Asking the developer (Asking how many poligons has the model X to the developer. Asking if that or that model of the plane will be simulates....)
Sharing important info with the developer.....

Yes all share in common the developer, because imo, this is the official thread where we intereact directly with them.

And what opinions I dont like to see in the officials thread, independently if their correctness and how much right we have to express our feelings:

Expressing how awful is the art or the artist or their methods and how much help they need. ( can be done elsewhere)
Expressing frustation for having wasted xxx bucks
Arguing with other users to win a particular contest of who's the better of both (forum dogfights that is)
Yelling that I am leaving to play X that is better.

Is that ones that I for one request to be considered by the mods to be moderated.

But as I said atthe begining I dont know if there are too many sharing this to even be discussed by the mods, anyway whatever it happens the world will continue turning.

I think thisis my longest post lol. Good sunday to all.

[VO101_Tom]

Originally Posted by klem

The goal is to obtain clear information from the developers and to provide the opportunity to ask or to see clear questions specifically on the update information and find the devs answers.
...

+1

Since a lot of rubbish here, it is difficult to read the important infos . I'm doing it to open Luthier and BlackSix members-page (statistics - find all post), I look there, what they said (not only announcements), so I read the important things, the rest of the forum only if I have time