CO-OPs again...

[EAF331 Starfire]

My 2 cents...

COOP in COD are still nothing than a DF server with COOP interface. The inability to to halt the mission time and read the briefings before the time starts.

I tried the "Idle" trick and made a recording; It showed that when the server is started the aircraft more or less fell from the skies. A/C and TIME was not frozen.

I read the complain about the feeling of mission being scripted with COOP. But this is excatly the feeling I want when I do my training missions. Mission were my pilots starts in the middle of the action so we can train the same subject again or again in order to make it muscle memory. Somthing we use a lot in EAF. This feature saves a lot of time.
I would love to do it the old fasion way as they do it in the USN, USAF or USMC but none of my pilots get paid to use real fuel in a real live aircraft. Which is why I want the old style COOP back. It would also make it easier and more temting for the SEOW folkes to adopt the SEOW campaign for COD.


BTW I would like to thanks the SEOW and HSFX folkes for their work all those years

[Blackdog_kt]

First of all, let's not get confrontational among ourselves over something that is not directly in our hands.

With that being said,

Originally Posted by JG53Frankyboy

in the high times of IL2 coop onlinewar flying, the waitingtimes in the Hyperlobby slots were actually quite short very often.

one has to mention, 9 months after IL2 releasecthere was no online war running. it took its time to organizice them, and they improved a lot during the time. perhaps some can remember the manual reports in the debriefing screen in the first IOW
Open Coops were flown alot after release, BBury's Valley of Death anyone But without the working Hyperlobby, all this would not have been possible. Il2 online playhad a lot of benefits because of a 3.party tool. cant imagine what would have happened without the HL.
The UBI.com lobby was crap, IIRC i was there once and than never again.

I will wait what the community is able to do online with this software in , lets say, 2 years after its release.....
in the moment the online possibilities of the software and the scenario of the BoB is boring for me.

Pretty sound arguments. A lot of people are expecting a newly released sim with not much in the way of 3rd party tools yet, to be what IL2 was after a couple of years of 3rd party involvement.

I'm not much of an onliner and mostly used Coops to train a mate who was returning to flight sims. When i wanted to fly online i always joined one of the objective based DF servers to get the best of both worlds: there is a mission to win and tasks to achieve, but there's also enough fluidity to ensure unpredictability and no waiting times.

I think the only thing needed for CoD is two switches: synchronise spawn times and no respawn. Then whatever we have will be able to work like an old-style coop which to be truly honest, would be most beneficial for arranged squad matches and squad training.

For an on-going online campaign with some sense of dynamic nature built in, the old coop interface is a bit long in the tooth frankly, as it would miss the opportunity to use certain appealing capabilities of the new engine.

Slapping up a quick and dirty training scenario for training people? Perfect. Making detailed scenarios that want to ensure the players follow a specified mission plan? Perfect. Making an online war? Workable but far from what can be actually implemented.

Mind you, i'm not saying the coop interface is not needed. What i'm saying is that sticking to it will limit the things we can do in the long run. It is needed, but mostly to bridge the gap until we get the really cool stuff happening.

Long term, i'd rather prefer a situation where a supply system is implemented (this means scripting), so that hitting targets has an effect on the enemy's ability to fight back. Then, depending on difficulty settings we could have respawns, limited respawns, no respawns or even virtual lives (eg, resettable stats and a counter on how many lives a player went through during the current campaign).

Even more, we could limit the ability of players to switch sides and even positions in a multi-crew aircraft. That's the reason these features exist in the difficulty options.

If i was running a more relaxed campaign i could allow people to come and go as they please. If i was running a more regulated campaign, i would have people register for a certain team for the entirety of the campaign through the server's forums, so that they can't get intel by simply joining the other team. Then i would have two sub-forums, one for each team, where they could plan their actions and operations without the other side having access to them.

This way (especially if dynamic/moving targets were scripted) players would have to actually fly recon/armed recon sorties to locate targets, instead of briefly hopping to the other team, taking off and making notes of the defences for the airfield they spawned at, switch back to their own team and plan a sortie to attack it.

If we wanted to take this further, we could even make it so that players sign up for a specific task or squadron for the entire campaign (eg, fighters or bombers), or even a specific crew position for the really hardcore crowd (like flying the entire campaign as a bombardier).

What this would need is a forum interface where the players sign up for their preferred team/task/etc and a parser adding that information into a script that controls what the players are allowed to do when actually connecting to the server.

The possibilities are endless and i thought up most of it within a week of release, just by looking at the difficulty options and wondering "now why would they have an option to limit this and that?".

Have some imagination people, we just have to wait for scripting to evolve or the SDK and manuals to be released.

The good thing is that since i'm now studying computing i'm getting to grips with how objective oriented programming works and C# is pretty similar in structure to most of the OOP languages. The bad thing is that it won't be before summer that i'll have the time to possibly sit down and code something

The best thing is that we already have people working on it, see Jimbop's link:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28559

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

Mind you, i'm not saying the coop interface is not needed. What i'm saying is that sticking to it will limit the things we can do in the long run. It is needed, but mostly to bridge the gap until we get the really cool stuff happening.

Ageed 100%

[HR_Naglfar]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

Have some imagination people, we just have to wait for scripting to evolve or the SDK and manuals to be released.

This.

Unfortunately the people here seems to lack a lot of imagination and patience

[Ataros]

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES

Thus those who know C# can do amazing things in CoD that could not be done in IL-2.. But now the pool of people making missions (coops) is much smaller

C# is not needed to create a coop mission. Banks did everything for us already. What is needed is to copy Banks' files to your HD, load game, open Banks' lobby and open any offline mission (from any campaign or single player) via it. This allows to play this offline mission as coop.

Recent version allows running several coops at the same time (that was not possible in Il-2 and is much more closer to IRL airwar). Worth coping here

Originally Posted by 41Sqn_Banks

I've completely rewritten most of the code in the last days and not all features are completed so far. However this is that the next release will feature:

- It allows to run several missions at the same time. Players first select the mission and then one of the aircraft of the mission.

- When a new mission is initiated by the host the aircraft of the missions are preloaded, this means they are idle and without fuel on the airfield (aircraft with air start are spawned on a random airfield, aircraft that spawn by script are also spawned). When a player selects an aircraft he is placed in the preloaded aircraft. This allows him to read the briefing.

- When one of the preloaded missions is started the preloaded aircraft are removed and the mission is loaded. The players are placed into the preselected aircraft. Of course aircraft with air start are supported. Also aircraft that spawn delayed by script are supported, the players are placed as soon as the aircraft is spawned.

- Players can select missions that are pending (the mission is only preloaded) and running (the mission normally loaded). This allows players to jump into a mission that is already in progress because they were late or to continue a mission after a game crash.

I will also include a automatism that allows to run a dedicated server that loads for example to preload a random mission from a folder every 15 minute and starts the mission after 15minutes. So you have always several missions in progress and one mission that is pending.

This system can also run on top of any "dogfight" server (some players dogfight and others fly coops in the same airspace).

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by Ataros

C# is not needed to create a coop mission. Banks did everything for us already. What is needed is to copy Banks' files to your HD, load game, open Banks' lobby and open any offline mission (from any campaign or single player) via it. This allows to play this offline mission as coop.

You know that..

And I know that..

But some of the nay-sayiers refuse to know that..

That or they don't know how to copy Banks files to thier HD!

[furbs]

Originally Posted by Ataros

C# is not needed to create a coop mission. Banks did everything for us already. What is needed is to copy Banks' files to your HD, load game, open Banks' lobby and open any offline mission (from any campaign or single player) via it. This allows to play this offline mission as coop.

Recent version allows running several coops at the same time (that was not possible in Il-2 and is much more closer to IRL airwar). Worth coping here


This system can also run on top of any "dogfight" server (some players dogfight and others fly coops in the same airspace).

----------------------------------------------

One more time for old times sake...

THEN WHY IS THERE NO BLEEDIN CO-OPS BEING PLAYED? IL TELL YOU WHY, BECAUSE THE SYSTEM DOESNT WORK!!

Are you saying that somewhere back in development history they said "i know, you know that old style CO-OP that worked 100%...lets swap it for all sorts of cool stuff that nobody will use because you need to learn C+ to do anything...oh and lets not provide any manual or documents as well for at least 8 months"

You need to learn C+ to make CO-OPs? are you fecking metal??

THERE ARE NO PUBLIC CO-OPS BEING PLAYED BY ANYONE AFTER 8 MONTHS!!! DO YOU UNDERSTAND, ITS NOT WORKING!!!

---rant over--- needed that.

[HR_Naglfar]

Originally Posted by furbs

THEN WHY IS THERE NO BLEEDIN CO-OPS BEING PLAYED? IL TELL YOU WHY, BECAUSE THE SYSTEM DOESNT WORK!!

May be because of the memory leak problems that the game have right now, wich can cause a crash just before dropping bombs, or even better, just before landing after a completely succesfull mission

Originally Posted by furbs

Are you saying that somewhere back in development history they said "i know, you know that old style CO-OP that worked 100%...lets swap it for all sorts of cool stuff that nobody will use because you need to learn C+ to do anything...oh and lets not provide any manual or documents as well for at least 8 months"

Just because you can't do anything with the scripts doesn't mean that nobody can and nobody use the script system.

I think that the decision to include it was the best decision they ever make with this game.

Originally Posted by furbs

You need to learn C+ to make CO-OPs? are you fecking metal??

You don't need to learn C# (CoD use C# for scripts, not C+) to make coops. You just have to use a script made by other people (the one made by Banks for example), wich is a very simple thing to do.

Originally Posted by furbs

THERE ARE NO PUBLIC CO-OPS BEING PLAYED BY ANYONE AFTER 8 MONTHS!!! DO YOU UNDERSTAND, ITS NOT WORKING!!!

As I said, there are other problems more serious than the lack of an old coop system.

But anyway that's false. E69 played recently a public coop, and I think that they had more problems with the crashes than with the CoD online system.

[jimbop]

Yes, I doubt coops will take off (pun intended!) until the CTD issues are resolved. This was interesting from the guy who runs the ATAG server:

"Hopefully we'll get a patch out soon, so we can include some of the other missions we've made that are more focused to the formation/bomber flights/ground pounding. Just in the current situation of the game, it's not worth running until the launcher issues are sorted.."

From here. I can't wait for these types of missions but agree there's not much point starting them until people can reliably take off, fly a decent length mission and land again without crashing. Hopefully the next patch sorts out the memory leak.

[Ataros]

Originally Posted by furbs

----------------------------------------------

One more time for old times sake...

THEN WHY IS THERE NO BLEEDIN CO-OPS BEING PLAYED? IL TELL YOU WHY, BECAUSE THE SYSTEM DOESNT WORK!!

Are you saying that somewhere back in development history they said "i know, you know that old style CO-OP that worked 100%...lets swap it for all sorts of cool stuff that nobody will use because you need to learn C+ to do anything...oh and lets not provide any manual or documents as well for at least 8 months"

You need to learn C+ to make CO-OPs? are you fecking metal??

THERE ARE NO PUBLIC CO-OPS BEING PLAYED BY ANYONE AFTER 8 MONTHS!!! DO YOU UNDERSTAND, ITS NOT WORKING!!!

---rant over--- needed that.

Sorry, my English is not good enough and maybe you misunderstood my message you quoted.

C# knowledge is not needed to a user to create and fly coops.

You should distinguish between 2 systems: stock CloD and Banks' ones. The latest one works. It is not 100% ready yet and many players do not know about it yet plus launcher crashes = not many coops till now.

If you are trying to prove that stock CloD coop system does not work I do not understand your motivation. 1st, everyone knows this except for Luthier and BlackSix (e.g. my post http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...2&postcount=25 looks like you missed it). 2nd, proving this to us does not lead you to anything at all. "DO YOU UNDERSTAND, ITS NOT WORKING!!!" So what? Does it bring you any results or improvements? It gives you nothing. It would be much more fruitful to test and write about Banks' script that you do not do because you have no interest in coops. Otherwise you would have tested it already.

3rd, if you want to persuade Luthier and B6, it would be more efficient to do it here http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28341 or in bugreports/updates threads if you really want to be helpful because they do not read all threads.

Originally Posted by furbs

---rant over--- needed that.

No offence intended but if your own psychological benefits is the only reason for you posting here, isn't it called trolling and prohibited by forum rules? What do your posts bring to the community table? Any new help, solutions, knowledge? Can you handle your frustration without sharing it on the forums and instead bring in something positive emotionally helping others who are more frustrated than you are (there are some girls lurking around btw)? Isn't that what men do or is it you and 2-3 other people here who every day needs a hug more than others? We can give you a hug and share your pain, you are welcome. The system is not working, CloD is not Il-2, Softclub is not MG, Luthier is not Oleg, you can not expect German quality from a Russian company unless it is run by a soviet-school aviation engineer obsessed with perfectionism. Hope it helps