66!

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by swiss

The EF would have been an awesome plane - if it was out in the 90s...
Let's sum it up:

- it's over 10 years late

So? What do you want, a new multi-role jet every 5 years? It was designed with longevity in mind. The F-18 is 25 years old, yet you don't hear a lot of people complaining about it (and let's not even look at the F-15 or F-16..).

- has no stealth capabilities

has less stealth capabilities than an F-22 maybe, but it has a good stealth level.

- way too expensive

is it? Compared to what exactly? Last time I checked an F-22 price tag it didn't come cheaper than an EF.

- it's 2011, yet there's still no thrust vectoring

Yeah, too bad that thrust vectoring doesn't really serve much of a purpose, other than doing fancy manouvres at an airshow..

This plane is friggin joke. On the other hand, it's the perfect weapon to scare the crap out of some 3rd world countries...
Too bad the "Allied" didn't lose any over Libya.

your conclusion is somehow despicable. And for the record, the US lost several "stealth" jets, most notably an F-117 over Serbia..

Rumor has it it came out as the favorite of the swiss airforce, they evaluated the EF, Rafale and Grippen.
Should that prove to be true, for the time in my life I'll join the lefties and vote it down.

for once Switzerland could be good and give back some of the money they robbed over the last 100 years, so let's hope they buy them yes.

[swiss]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

So? What do you want, a new multi-role jet every 5 years? It was designed with longevity in mind. The F-18 is 25 years old, yet you don't hear a lot of people complaining about it (and let's not even look at the F-15 or F-16..).

We have F18. It's save to assume they are the best maintained F18 on the planet.
Yet, we still have only 50% availability.

has less stealth capabilities than an F-22 maybe, but it has a good stealth level.

For the this price and 2011?

is it? Compared to what exactly? Last time I checked an F-22 price tag it didn't come cheaper than an EF.

The F22 is not available for Export, the way it looks right now they end production next year.
Given the fact they don't sell it, there's no need to discuss it.

Yeah, too bad that thrust vectoring doesn't really serve much of a purpose, other than doing fancy manouvres at an airshow..

But outturnig a spit is an achievement?
I guess future Typhoon upgrades include the ability to outrun Mig 21s.

your conclusion is somehow despicable. And for the record, the US lost several "stealth" jets, most notably an F-117 over Serbia..

I only know of the F117 lost in combat.
Then again, it was shot down by an elite AAA unit.
It actually only proves the existence of the golden shot, nothing more, nothing less.

for once Switzerland could be good and give back some of the money they robbed over the last 100 years, so let's hope they buy them yes.

Actually I hope we buy the Grippen.
You get 2 of them for each eurofighter, double availability.
They are cheap to operate and idiotproof
Not EU
Not USA

In case we have to wait a few years maybe we should evaluate the Pak-Fa too, although they could be a bit oversized for this tiny country.

BTT:
What money? Stole from whom? Since 1911?

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by swiss

We have F18. It's save to assume they are the best maintained F18 on the planet.
Yet, we still have only 50% availability.

Fleet availability is something that has little to do with how dependable an aircraft is. It might be down to maintenance routines, costs or other operational issues. Considering the know-how and experience of pilots and ground crews, I'd rather switch to the Super Hornet than change fleet completely.

For the this price and 2011?

The F22 is not available for Export, the way it looks right now they end production next year.
Given the fact they don't sell it, there's no need to discuss it.

And that's my point. The Eurofighter is the best multi-role jet money can buy at the moment. The F-22 wasn't sold cos THAT is a flop, and other than the technical snags, it's mainly cos the fleet maintenance costs the American taxpayers A LOT.

But outturnig a spit is an achievement?
I guess future Typhoon upgrades include the ability to outrun Mig 21s.

no, I didn't mean it in that way, I just find the manouverability of modern jets is outstanding, I'm sure an F-22 or a Su-27 could do as good.

I only know of the F117 lost in combat.
Then again, it was shot down by an elite AAA unit.
It actually only proves the existence of the golden shot, nothing more, nothing less.

no, they used extremely long wavelengths and spotted the F-117 when it opened the bomb bays. The plane was damaged by a proximity fuzed missile. This proves once again that when the American boast about new technologies, they do it too much and kill the surprise factor. AA units in Serbia were well aware of the existence of the stealth bomber, and used their skill and initiative shooting down a plane that had never been hit before.
Uh and for the record, the F-117 was retired in 2008 (in a somehow "stealth" fashion), to save one billion dollars for the F-22 program.. americans had been going in the wrong direction for quite some time now..

Actually I hope we buy the Grippen.
You get 2 of them for each eurofighter, double availability.
They are cheap to operate and idiotproof
Not EU
Not USA

yeah good luck with that, I'm sure the SAF is thrilled to get their Saabs..

In case we have to wait a few years maybe we should evaluate the Pak-Fa too, although they could be a bit oversized for this tiny country.

Yeah, another Russian gem considering the size of Swiss airspace you really need something that is manouverable

BTT:
What money? Stole from whom? Since 1911?

it was only a joke, I'm sure you're aware of the general impression the world has of Switzerland