The Battle of Britain Was The First Defeat For The German Luftwaffe.

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

What else should I react like? If that is what you get out of the article...well, there's not much left to say.

Well it was the only point with any validity with regards to an unfair image of the germans, did you not notice most of the other stuff mentioned was about Hitler and Nazism?.....or do you think that Hitler also is getting a rough deal here?

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

Well it was the only point with any validity with regards to an unfair image of the germans, did you not notice most of the other stuff mentioned was about Hitler and Nazism?.....or do you think that Hitler also is getting a rough deal here?

This article was not about the germans. It was about the british. I played enough Call of Duty like games and had too much fun flying a Tempests or Mustangs in IL2 to care too much if germans are getting killed in video games, I had too much fun doing that. It's just games, after all, and good entertainment on top.

Out of pure curiosuity..please could you explain to me your line of thought that made you attach certain criticism of british attitudes with a support for Hitler?

[bongodriver]

Out of pure curiosuity..please could you explain to me your line of thought that made you attach certain criticism of british attitudes with a support for Hitler?

When people suggest our Victory celebrations should be regarded as offensive to Germans it's easy to assume that said Germans forget what was really being fought against, so if the Germans feel so hard done by do they feel their war was just? the 'British' attitudes in regards to celebrating achievements in WWII seem no different to the celebrations of the USA's equivalents.....they just don't seem to be faced with the same criticism.

so with that in mind, could you explain to me why every time a Brit celebrates surviving a conflict and coming out on top (with help....nobody denies it), fighting against a widely aknowleged force for evil, we just get labeled as Nationalist idiots with an 'empire mentality'

[bongodriver]

With all due respect. You fight Nazis by removing the conditions that make their rise possible or more likely, not by showing people again and again that a man with a mustach and a swastika on his arm is bad news and using them to win an argument on a constant basis.

With all due respect how is that achieveable without resorting to techniques that they were infamous for, we fought a war for democracy and freedom of speech, even if that means you choose to be a Nazi. can you explain to me what constitutes the condition for cultivating a Nazi (appart from letting the French humiliate them)

[csThor]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

With all due respect how is that achieveable without resorting to techniques that they were infamous for, we fought a war for democracy and freedom of speech, even if that means you choose to be a Nazi. can you explain to me what constitutes the condition for cultivating a Nazi (appart from letting the French humiliate them)

No war was ever fought for noble intentions. That label was slapped on it but given the british behavior in their own colonies (i.e. India) I would very much doubt that the british political establishment of the 1930s and 1940 even had an idea what real democracy was about. British politics of that time could be summarized as "Old Boys Club" containing the same old elites which had been the rulers ever since William the Conqueror had set foot on the island. And, although this is a very personal opinion and contains a lot of irony on my part, Empires do not deal in democratic terms, do they?

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by csThor

No war was ever fought for noble intentions. That label was slapped on it but given the british behavior in their own colonies (i.e. India) I would very much doubt that the british political establishment of the 1930s and 1940 even had an idea what real democracy was about. British politics of that time could be summarized as "Old Boys Club" containing the same old elites which had been the rulers ever since William the Conqueror had set foot on the island. And, although this is a very personal opinion and contains a lot of irony on my part, Empires do not deal in democratic terms, do they?

at the time the empires were being forged no, you are right, nothing democratic anout it and I have said before I am not comfortable with the means used....it is however now history, at the time of WWII, what was left of the 'empire' was largely democratic.

[bongodriver]

Colonial empire?....do people really believe we were holding them all to ransom, WWII was a perfect opportunity for the empire to say 'sod you mate youre on your own'....what the hell could we have done about it?

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

When people suggest our Victory celebrations should be regarded as offensive to Germans it's easy to assume that said Germans forget what was really being fought against, so if the Germans feel so hard done by do they feel their war was just? the 'British' attitudes in regards to celebrating achievements in WWII seem no different to the celebrations of the USA's equivalents.....they just don't seem to be faced with the same criticism.

That is your problem. Nobody ever said your victory celebrations are an offense to anybody. That was entirely your interpretation. What was said is that your victory celebrations are blinding you to an objective perspective. Once again you spin this into some kind of attack. With other words, you warp others arguments into an attack, for whatever reasons.

so with that in mind, could you explain to me why every time a Brit celebrates surviving a conflict and coming out on top (with help....nobody denies it), fighting against a widely aknowleged force for evil, we just get labeled as Nationalist idiots with an 'empire mentality'

No, can't explain that, because nobody did that but yourself. So you may want to ask yourself why you feel offended all the time. Now if you can't take what people say the way it is you should not wonder if those people go nuts eventually. And don't come up with Kongo Otto again, I am not him, neither is Stern, nor anybody else.

With all due respect how is that achieveable without resorting to techniques that they were infamous for, we fought a war for democracy and freedom of speech, even if that means you choose to be a Nazi. can you explain to me what constitutes the condition for cultivating a Nazi (appart from letting the French humiliate them)

The techniques used by the Nazis were neither new nor have not been employed later on by other nations. In fact, those means are still very much alive and kicking these days. Just look at the US and how Bush manipulated to the public into marching into Iraq. Or the picture Islam has taken in western society. Or more and more surveillance by governments to look after their citizens. Despite decades of Nazi docmentaries and debates the same things are happening right in front of our eyes with nobody caring a bit about it. So please do not tell me that using the Nazis had done naything so far to prevent developments the Nazis were famous for.

And finally, there we have this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ0mdxXw8Ac

which is just the absolute climax of anglo saxon nations dealing with the Nazis. Its nuts.

[arthursmedley]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

The techniques used by the Nazis were neither new nor have not been employed later on by other nations. In fact, those means are still very much alive and kicking these days. Just look at the US and how Bush manipulated to the public into marching into Iraq.

Hmm..interesting. I can't help noticing the parallels between 9/11 and the Reichstag
fire. Both used the destruction of prominent public buildings to push through legislation subverting their citizens basic constitutional rights.

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by arthursmedley

Hmm..interesting. I can't help noticing the parallels between 9/11 and the Reichstag
fire. Both used the destruction of prominent public buildings to push through legislation subverting their citizens basic constitutional rights.

Göring is an eye opener. From an interview in 1946

Göring: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.
Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.
Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.