Script assistance needed

[Mington]

If information is good it does not matter where it is found, we will find it and pass on the word

A worked example may be the best way to start a tutorial for people like me who are interested in scripting (having recognised its power) and who know something about programming generally

We want to create the fire engine and ambulance and emergency equipment at an airfield

We want to detect a damaged plane incoming to land. Using an airfield radius perhaps, and as a damaged plane crosses the radius there is a trigger generated for our emergency vehicles to move from their parked positions to the runway to meet the plane

Not to start moving when a plane crash-lands, but to behave like real-world airfield emergency vehicles - preparing to meet any plane that seems as if it will need emergency vehicles

Now in any mission when any damaged plane crosses the AirfieldEmergency radius, emergency vehicles are sent to near the active runway. Mechanics swarm over the planes repairing re-fuelling and re-arming in future versions

Over at SimHQ I am attempting to coax a tutorial from people who have FMB information to share - the best information (for learners) will be found in step-by-little-step tutorials starting from the top

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.ph...ml#Post3387619

Here's how I would share info if I had any

I will make small test-stub scripts, there's a command to display onscreen

GamePlay.gpHUDLogCenter("Hello from Ming's world. Traditionally.");

-and if a trigger worked (here just a timer completing) I print onscreen

GamePlay.gpHUDLogCenter("Yes Ming that worked");

Now we can get feedback simply, just like in the old days

This helps enormously, to get a feel for the mission as a program with inputs and outputs - with hard-copy output

A Single mission with four planes, takeoff and land. As the second plane in the flight takes off print 'Second plane in the flight takes off' Wave(bye bye)

As the third plane is on finals print 'Third plane in flight now landing'

It's very difficult to explain to FMB-savvy people how they can help because they are interested in designing applications, while we of the Hood are interested in first-principles FMB - starting from the most basic 'Is It A Plane?' testing-scripts

Ming

[klem]

Originally Posted by Mington

If information is good it does not matter where it is found, we will find it and pass on the word .....................
Over at SimHQ I am attempting to coax a tutorial from people who have FMB information to share - the best information (for learners) will be found in step-by-little-step tutorials starting from the top

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.ph...ml#Post3387619

.....................
Ming

<sigh>

another example of "scripting examples scattered across this and other forums".

This is exactly what I mean. Everyone has their favourite website. How is anyone, coming to the home forum of CoD, supposed to learn anything if he first has to learn about all of the web based sim community and where/what all their websites might be? And whether there may be answers on them?

I know its well meant but it just doesn't help focus on the issue.
"If information is good it does not matter where it is found, we will find it and pass on the word " Are you really going to trawl even this forum website, pick up on all the questions and answer them somewhere else and post links to those answers? There's no point in trying to assemble a 'library' if its spread across five websites.

[Mington]

<sigh>

another example of "scripting examples scattered across this and other forums".

Sigh yourself and read more carefully please, you asked for a more central place. Ideas are the central places, we lure them in with challenges

Everyone has their favourite website

Yes and SimHQ is the premier site for combat flight-sim fans for many years since CombatSim went commando

Are you really going to trawl even this forum website, pick up on all the questions and answer them somewhere else and post links to those answers?

Of course. I don't expect it to be easy going in the early days. We've already done this with RoF and we got there eventually didn't we

I know next-to-nothing but I know enough to spot forums where good information is being posted, Kodiak here and FearlessFrog over there. I can spot talent

I do not call it trawling that's disrespectful, these are good friendly and informative sites. I call it gathering intel. See cast your bread upon the waters mentioned earlier. I've scattered a breadcrumb trail from here to SimHQ, that'll do for a start what's the rush

Ming

[klem]

Originally Posted by Mington

<sigh>

another example of "scripting examples scattered across this and other forums".

Sigh yourself and read more carefully please, you asked for a more central place. Ideas are the central places, we lure them in with challenges

Everyone has their favourite website

Yes and SimHQ is the premier site for combat flight-sim fans for many years since CombatSim went commando

Are you really going to trawl even this forum website, pick up on all the questions and answer them somewhere else and post links to those answers?

Of course. I don't expect it to be easy going in the early days. We've already done this with RoF and we got there eventually didn't we

I know next-to-nothing but I know enough to spot forums where good information is being posted, Kodiak here and FearlessFrog over there. I can spot talent

I do not call it trawling that's disrespectful, these are good friendly and informative sites. I call it gathering intel. See cast your bread upon the waters mentioned earlier. I've scattered a breadcrumb trail from here to SimHQ, that'll do for a start what's the rush

Ming

Ming,

A central place is singular - ONE place not several places.

My point about code being "spread around" is just that. You think SimHQ is the place, Gamekeeper thinks airwarfare.com is the place. We haven't heard from fans of all the other places yet! I happen to think the home of CoD is the place but I'd accept any one place. That calls for agreement, co-operation and leaving the egos at the door when you enter.

By the way Trawling means "go through and search" and is not disrepectful. It doesn't mean Trolling which may be the way you read it.

[Ataros]

airwarfare.com kindly offers convenient file storage and we can ask the mods to make a sticky with this link.

1C is the most popular site so far with the most developed subsection structure even compared to excellent simhq (which I learned about upcoming original IL-2 beta from btw ) and Sukhoi.ru which is my favorite site because the devs post there in Russian sometimes.

We can ask mods to make another subsection for sample scripts in this section. However people will want to discuss them. And people will post their requests for new scripts in that section. And people will ask questions about not working triggers, etc. in that section. Thus that section would eventually duplicate this one.

The most interesting samples are the ones that are included inside the missions and campaigns posted here in the FMB section. For instance most of the functionality mentioned above can be found in the 1st stillborn's mission running on Repka #3 and posted here. The best way to learn is to download all the missions from this section and study how they work from the inside. Many scripts have comments in them.

To make step by step instructions even for basic C# operations/methods usable in CloD would be a full-time job for a small team of programmers because there is literally no borders or limits to what can be done. (Don't you want to fly a recon mission and actually report enemy units pos to your bombers for instance? Or ... etc. etc. etc... ?)

IMO the issue is not lack of samples (there are plenty of them posted here) but the fact that it is not enough to just copy-paste them to make them work. Some basic knowledge of C# in needed. In April-May I asked the devs and C# experts to make a script library myself but after reading naryv's samples (reposted here, you should find all of them) ended up buying the shortest book on the subject I could find called "C# beginners' course" which allows to understand how to make various scripts work together. I highly recommend starting with a similar book or a free Internet course and use it as a dictionary while studying stillborn's, naryv's and all other scripts posted here. Samples or even the FMB manual would not help without understanding C# basics unfortunately. ...and visa versa if you understand C# basics than neither samples nor the manual would be needed, just some help and advice on particular issues which can be easily obtained on these forums.

[Blackdog_kt]

Ataros is right on the money.

C# is a programming language that many people use to earn a living, it's not a gaming tool. There's no way around it, until someone codes a graphical front-end for the most basic stuff(and even that would be limited to the most commonly used functions) it's going to take investment of personal time and learning how to code to do things.

[Mington]

To make step by step instructions even for basic C# operations/methods usable in CloD would be a full-time job for a small team of programmers

I'm not sure that you're getting it. The subtle counter-intelligence thing I mean

Cards on the table then.

We know that Kodiak can do all this stuff we need to find out about, if we're gentle and coaxing we might get a tutorial, just one person with knowledge and prepared to share can make a big difference

For example many of us have used 3D tutorials to learn 3D work from online tutorials it's our heritage - people in the communities helping others. We worked out how the RoF FMB worked and shared/pooled our knowledge...

http://riseofflight.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=348

We don't need a team of professionals, we already have enough savvy people around to create tutorials - look at Vanderstok's RoF FMB-tutorial videos

http://riseofflight.com/forum/viewto...ers+vanderstok

Can everybody please concentrate and allow Kodiak to find out that he is needed and there is an international audience waiting to buy cold beers for him

It's not the C# that's the problem, that's simple because all the unknowns are known, we just read a book and Hello World arrange the parts. It's the not-knowing how most of the CoD FMB pieces fit together because we have no documentation. If CoD documentation is going to be RoF all over again then someone needs to ask the wise man for help while trying not to actually grovel

We're not wanting to make any conditions or to be too demanding, just chatting on a user forum where the Great Bear is prowling...

Do I make myself clear without belabouring it

if you understand C# basics than neither samples nor the manual would be needed, just some help and advice on particular issues which can be easily obtained on these forums

How can I detect that a damaged plane in an RTB-ing four-flight is inbound to the airfield to possibly make a crash landing?

Detect the plane passing some distance-radius from the runway let's focus on that

I'm taking you at your word as I know enough about C# to type in the solution. When you've found it and I quote easily

We don't know "It's what we don't know we don't know..." exactly what we need to know to master the CoD FMB but - don't ask, don't get. But on the other hand we must always be making concrete cases and asking for worked examples to make life easier for our tutors, focus.

Being Russian or German first-language is of course making distribution of information difficult for us all in the beginning, we must encourage our German and Russian friends to help English-localise posted German and Russian FMB tutorials. They're ahead of the game and why not

Ming

[klem]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

Ataros is right on the money.

C# is a programming language that many people use to earn a living, it's not a gaming tool. There's no way around it, until someone codes a graphical front-end for the most basic stuff(and even that would be limited to the most commonly used functions) it's going to take investment of personal time and learning how to code to do things.

Blackdog_kt, I think Ming's post that follows yours sums it up quite well.

I am familiar with the basic principles of coding even though it is from years of Visual Basic and VBS not C#.

We can see from the .cs files that they are fundamentally modular leading to the possibility of module examples in response to requests and other examples simply posted by people who have already developed them. Yes, that calls for the patience and good will of the knowledgeable guys who would essentially be filling a void left in the game application. What I had hoped for was a bank of these modules with a basic very brief explanation of their purpose so that we could interpret, learn to understand and use. Studying existing modules is one way but is long and laborious as you first have find one that may contain what you want, understand what the script module is trying to do and you still may not find what you are looking for.

There are many methods and objects etc created in the Maddox game that are unknown to many of us. Some are confusing such as 'Actor' meaning Aircraft (as far as I can make out) not 'Player'. Some of our 1C friends know these and are in a position to help and advise. I spent a lot of time in my career teaching people various subjects at various levels from electronic maintenance to business management. One of the dangers of those doing the teaching, or presenting examples/guides, is that they see things from 'the inside looking out' instead of where their pupils are, 'on the outside looking in' and often into a dark black box of a world they just don't know about yet. We tend to assume that if we are familiar with a concept or a detail which is so basic to us, we take it for granted that our 'pupils' will already have that knowledge. So jargon, assumed knowledge etc lead to a gulf between what is being presented and what is being received. Some my my maintenance pupils didn't need to be electronics experts to understand and fault find modular equipment on an oil rig in the middle of the Gulf, they just needed to know how to piece information and blocks together to fix and get something working. We don't all need to be top-level C# programmers for CoD, we do need to understand basic principles (which can be read up or learned) and then have the support of those around us on the Maddox game-specific aspects and how they are used.

My hope was to open up the Maddox coding world to semi-laymen like myself. It may not reach all players but I think it would open up mission coding for quite a few.

Of course I could study C# in great depth, then find and study all the aspects of the Maddox game but frankly I'm not willing to spend that much time on it. If the FMB didn't give us a graphical means of creating very basic missions I wouldn't be bothering with making them as I'd no doubt have to study even more. Its not that I want an easy path, just an easier path than we have at the moment. No, wait, I do want an easy path, I didn't buy this game to have to study programming in order to use it! I wonder what level the SDK will be pitched at, whether there will be graphical interfaces and whether it will be for maps, for aircraft or even mission building. Lets face it, these things will fall on a very few shoulders if its all bare coding and will deny the rest of us those opportunities which I see as a fundamental part of what I have bought.

Anyway, a 1C-forum coding library isn't going to happen. Getting people to agree on a single solution is harder than learning C#. I guess I am just over-optimistic, after all if I wasn't I'd have dumped CoD and followed the majority of my Squadmates who have given up on CoD and bogged off into RoF.