Suddenly Spit IIa on all the servers?

[Ze-Jamz]

Originally Posted by VO101_Tom

How can this be? Sure, you're not listening when they said, that the Spit II is actually not a good aircraft. Then sitting into and shoot down nearly forty aircraft. Great. And then what about the reds?

Nice points anyway

One day, I tried the same test, but with Spit Ia. I collected 7-8 points and one KIA (chute did not open), but there was no time to continue. All I've done, I didn't pushed on zero meters below the dogfights, climb when I did not see anyone, and (who neurasthenic do not read further) i left the target, when another 109 appears...

Lol..That wasnt the last screen mate.. i ended up on 48 kills/ 1 death and was flying on the server for just over 3 hours..

I used it like a 109 bnZ..difference is if you want to turn,chase or climb up to someone you can, nothing escapes..the only way you wouldnt get shot down by the mk2 is if i ran out of ammo and had to RTB, granted that happened a lot of times and i just bailed..couldnt be assed tbh

I havent said its not a good plane, i think it ownes...period, all i would like to see is the other AC that it fights to be given a chance on escape...staying 1k above it at full speed and only BnZ once isnt being 'given a chance'

As for DMG, it can take a lot but so can the 109 so I have no idea whats correct who is right and who is wrong on that...

Though i will say, after exploding countless 109 fuel tanks..and them to fly like they were seems a bit far fetched imho

[AARPRazorbacks]

I joined a server that had both the E-4 and the IIa.
I have not been in the E-4 much in combat so I thought I would see just how the E-4 really did compared to the IIa head to head.

This is a server with the English channel map mind you.

We came on head to head(E-4 and IIa)
I got the advantage on the IIa but lost him.

He got the advantage on me. I did some definitive moves and lost him.
But he never got on my 6 after that he got the heck out of there because he know that I had him and one lucky shot as I'v been told he would have been out.

This is the IIa that out fly's the 109's.

The truth is, in the E-4 109 I out did the that IIa.

I stayed around and another IIa showed up. The same thing. But this time he was on my 6. I out did him also in the E-4. And got the advantage.

Had it been a I or a Ia it would have been a ez score as we all know.

I have not been flying the 109's that much but it did not take long to learn how to get the advantage on the IIa in the 109.

Just like it did not take long to learn how to out fly the 109's in the IIa as the video showed.

Conclusion: It's not the IIa that's the problem but the pilot's of the 109's that are not as good as thy think.

I like the ATAG server. But I also think thy are cheating the Server and the players by not having the IIa and having a more level playing field.

On other servers that have both planes the score's are not lop sided like thy are in the ATAG server for the 109's.

I'm not trying to flame anyone with this.
I'm not going by what other pilots say.
I'm going by what I did and found out.

flyer01

flyer, do one thing: Compare historic flight data with the in game performance of the 109 and then do the same for the spit 2a. You will see that the performance of the spit 2a is correct while in game the 109 does not reach its historic performance.

So there IS something wrong with the FM of the 109 whatever arguments ever you want to throw into this discussion.

[Jugdriver]

Originally Posted by AARPRazorbacks

I'm not trying to flame anyone with this.

LOL, Get Ready Razorback, they are going to try and flame you. Besides you are heating things up a bit with that last post.


JD
AKA_MattE

[Ze-Jamz]

Im sorry but i really cannot see how you in a 109 escaped a Spit2 pilot..unless you were going flat out in a dive and you were using your barn door rudder to either out scissor him and hopefully get a shot in before you bleed to much 'E' and he will punish you if you do that

OR

once above 500kph you again used your rudder to switch direction knowing the Spits heavy surfaces wouldnt be able to match you..

Ive been on countless 109's at all speed and at stall speeds low on the dek, with flaps down and 100%PP and unlimited Boost you ARE NOT getting away from me..lol even if i lose you for 2-3 seconds and your going the other way ffs i can still catch you...I just dont get your conclusion, at all

Im sorry i dont agree with what your saying Razorbacks

Im past caring on if its in or out but please..thats lil story of your has got as much grunt as my screenshot

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by cheesehawk

Actually, no one is asking for balanced planes, what they want are planes with their historically appropriate advantages and disadvantages. At least, that's the case between the 109 and Hurri right now, and I assume correct between the 109 and Ia (although, quite frankly, not enough people climb them high enough for me to determine if it really has an advantage at altitude like it should have). Problem is, the IIa has no disadvantages as its current speed, and therefore lift are so much higher than the other planes (and not its historical amount of advantage, but a far greater one) that it becomes the de facto uber-plane of the era, of which there were none.

Exactly. Most of the designs back then were closely matched. Having all fighter designs in the sim currently being undermodeled while a single one is the only one to be modeled correctly to specs is creating a non-historical relative performance situation: the Spit IIa might be flying right in terms of absolute performance, but the performance gaps between the IIa and every other fighter are wrong because everything else is undermodeled.

The solution? We could either undermodel the Spit IIa as well to maintain correct relative performance, or "upgrade" the rest of the fighters to their historically correct FM to do the same (obviously, the second choice is the desirable one ).

One of the fastest fighters during the BoB was the 110, but you don't see it being employed that way because of the flutter effect onset at 500km/h making it impossible to BnZ people. No single-engined fighter during the BoB enjoyed a 100km/h advantage over other fighters, but in the sim that's what happens with the MkIIa. Hurricanes weren't faster than Spit Mk.Is but in the sim they are and their roles reversed because of the propeller mix-up. Why does all that happen? Simply, because the FMs need fine tuning.

In the meantime, since we don't have fully accurate FMs, we can tailor planesets around having accurate match-ups in terms of relative performance



What that means for people who are flying MP is to either restrict the numbers of Mk.IIa Spits, ban them altogether, or give them a far-behind-the-lines spawning location so that others can get a chance to get the drop on them, until the 110s and 109s can bounce them like they historically did and the rest of the RAF fighters don't utterly suck compared to the IIa like they didn't suck historically either.

To sum up, it's not so much how the Spit Mk.II flies, but how the rest of the fighters fly: the Spit Mk.II might be the only fighter to be really close to historical performance, but at the same time there was no fighter during the BoB that was 100km/h faster than anything else. That's the problem here, the relative performance inaccuracy which creates non-historical tactical situations, not a single FM all by itself.

[Winger]

Originally Posted by AARPRazorbacks

I joined a server that had both the E-4 and the IIa.
I have not been in the E-4 much in combat so I thought I would see just how the E-4 really did compared to the IIa head to head.

This is a server with the English channel map mind you.

We came on head to head(E-4 and IIa)
I got the advantage on the IIa but lost him.

He got the advantage on me. I did some definitive moves and lost him.
But he never got on my 6 after that he got the heck out of there because he know that I had him and one lucky shot as I'v been told he would have been out.

This is the IIa that out fly's the 109's.

The truth is, in the E-4 109 I out did the that IIa.

I stayed around and another IIa showed up. The same thing. But this time he was on my 6. I out did him also in the E-4. And got the advantage.

Had it been a I or a Ia it would have been a ez score as we all know.

I have not been flying the 109's that much but it did not take long to learn how to get the advantage on the IIa in the 109.

Just like it did not take long to learn how to out fly the 109's in the IIa as the video showed.

Conclusion: It's not the IIa that's the problem but the pilot's of the 109's that are not as good as thy think.

I like the ATAG server. But I also think thy are cheating the Server and the players by not having the IIa and having a more level playing field.

On other servers that have both planes the score's are not lop sided like thy are in the ATAG server for the 109's.

I'm not trying to flame anyone with this.
I'm not going by what other pilots say.
I'm going by what I did and found out.

flyer01

Sorry but that pilot must have been a greenhorn. Normally you cant say that its that simple to win a fight by just pulling harder into one direction until you are on the opponents tail. Sitting in a Spit IIa it IS! The spit IIa outturns the 109 in a matter of seconds. And what follows is the 109 being in the recticle of the spit with no chance of escape. Neither up or down or level. Nothing helps.
You can talk as much as you want. Fact remains: Even skilled pilots. One in a IIa, one in a 109. 109=TOAST!
Also i CANNOT understand why you keep insisting in this being wrong. It IS the truth. For me you indeed are nothing but a red jockey that fears for his cheat being removed. Get into a hurri or Ia and you EARNED your victory and can be proud of it. Not by taking this victory using the IIa cheat.

Blackdog summed it up just right. Those are the honest facts.

Winger

[SEE]

Having been on MP regularly I have to agree that, in terms of fair play, it was the correct decision. I guess I am a 'convert' ....(not to 'Blue'....)

Jamz and Krupi went Red (to even the teams I guess?)...if so, that's 'fair play' and a credit to them. I doubt anyone could accuse many of the guys (who argued for the Spit Mk2 to be dropped) of being biased.

[AARPRazorbacks]

Sorry Winger but the I and the Ia are not right and you do not care about that.

If the I and the Ia where right you would want them off the server if you could not out fly them.

I was on a server where I was flying for the blue team but was able to fly the IIa and was out done by the other pilot flying the IIa more then I liked. lol

The IIa brought some fair play to the server IMO.
The ATAG Server is not putting in the IIa so you got what you wanted. Have fun shooting down the under powered Spit Fires and Ez spin out Hurri. lol


flyer01

[Ze-Jamz]

We still going.....?

Yes SSE me and Krupi flew Red because the teams were uneven mate..

The Spit1 is a real pig getting to Alt and I cooked the engine once I got there which was nice, managed to bag 2 italian bombers and a Low 109 before spinning helplessly into the ground from pulling too hard with a snap shot.

Took a Hurri up and outflew a 109 to get some nice hits and again crashed into the Grd lol.

Really have to work on that...I want me 109 back