Suggestion: forget multiplayer focus on sim for single player

[Danelov]

What I dont like specially in MP is some types of crazy things. Some examples of my experiences:

-I have finded Zeros over Stalingrad

-Battle of Britain with players in P-47 Thunderbolt.

-In some mission V-VS vs Luftwaffe , 90% of the Luftwaffe(blue) pilots were in Yak-3s.

-FW 190s in combat patrol over Okinawa.

Etc, etc, etc

Exactly for that I prefer Single Player, correct and historical accurate.

[robtek]

Originally Posted by Danelov

What I dont like specially in MP is some types of crazy things. Some examples of my experiences:

-I have finded Zeros over Stalingrad

-Battle of Britain with players in P-47 Thunderbolt.

-In some mission V-VS vs Luftwaffe , 90% of the Luftwaffe(blue) pilots were in Yak-3s.

-FW 190s in combat patrol over Okinawa.

Etc, etc, etc

Exactly for that I prefer Single Player, correct and historical accurate.

That, you find ONLY on Air-Quake (TM) Servers!
Those are worlds apart from Mission-oriented Servers and usually have WW-View (TM) enabled.

[Blackdog_kt]

I think csThor is being a bit too negative towards MP. I've only ever flown in a couple of full switch servers back when we didn't have CoD yet, but i didn't see so much of a problem with player attitude.

Yes, it exists to a certain degree and yes, some times concessions have to be made to get a level playing field for everyone, but that doesn't mean it's completely ahistorical. I think csThor just had some bad luck and happened to encounter more of it than i did

On the other hand, there are also MP fans who are too dismissive of the SP aspect and i disagree with them as well.

The way i see it is very simple:
SP is for getting a realistic depiction of a theater of operations and realistic behavioral patterns of air forces and pilots on a strategic and tactical level, for example RAF flying in Vic formation early on in the battle or Luftwaffe ignoring the airfields and going after London later on. It's for things like orders of battle, stations/squadron placement and mission profiles.

MP is for getting a realistic depiction of pilot behavior within the actual combat engagement. It's for getting a believable set of responses by the guy in front of your guns.

The only way to successfully merge the positive points of both is to fly in a dynamic online campaign with players that will agree to do things like they were done back then even if it gives them a disadvantage. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but good luck maintaining that on a large enough scale to have MP qualify as historically accurate in the majority of cases.

A significant number of people do fly that way in online wars but another significant number fly the way Danelov described and as such, i can't just ignore the statistic and claim MP is accurate by default. MP is as accurate as the players themselves and the mission designer/server host want it to be, in fact, even if the mission designer does set out to do things a certain way it still doesn't work out if the players don't go along with it.

That's the main point csThor is arguing and in that he is entirely correct: the AI will shut up and do as its told within the constraints of its ability, while a human player will do what it takes to win. This is what makes human vs human competition more thrilling but at the same time it results in the RAF not flying in Vic formation ever and the Luftwaffe never changing their targets and keep hammering the airfields: we get believable piloting while the battle/operations in the theater play out in a way completely different to history.

I still like it because a properly orchestrated MP event is the ultimate "what-if time machine" available with today's technology, but it's a far stretch calling it a recreation of the actual battle. It's a recreation of the means used to wage the battle and not the battle itself, because the means end up getting used in a different manner 99% of the time.

I like both SP and MP because they are different, but neither one can give 100% of what's needed in 100% of the cases to be considered the pinnacle of realism. And this is why i don't only consider them equally important (each one tends to complete what's missing from the other one), but i also like to alternate between the two.

[csThor]

My attitude towards MP is the result of four or five years worth of experiences with online gaming. And five more reading various server message boards.

[T}{OR]

MP all the way. SP vs. AI is for those that have never flown / participated in a well organized Online event.

[sigintwarrior]

I am a singleplayer/offline flier. I have not tried offline play, so I can't speak intelligently on it at all.

However, I completly enjoy my experience with this game so far. I can get over the bugs as I read alot about this game before I bought it. I expected to have alot of problems, but honestly, have had a very good time with this so far. I expect alot of fixes and improvements, and those will come with time.

I hope that they work on both sides of the spectrum so that we can all enjoy this game to the fullest. I believe that there is alot of potential and look forward to seeing if they can push this game to its limits.

[addman]

Focus on both parts are equally important IMO but the day MP becomes the number 1 priority for the devs it's bye bye for me. I agree with csThor all the way, I don't want to be dependent on other people for my own gaming experience. When I play ANY games (except WoT) I want to do it my own way and at my own pace. This is all a matter of taste that's why I don't condemn MP in anyway and expect onliners to be just as tolerant towards my taste and opinion. Long live MP!, just stay away from my SP .

[Danelov]

The solution maybe is well informed host or builders for MP missions with his basic data available.

-As example: C.A.I.(Corpo Aereo Italiano) fly his first mission Oct 24, 1940.

That mean any Regia Aeronautica aircraft is available for MP mission before this date.

-Jabos were first used by the Erp.Gr 210(including E-4Bs), Jul 19, 1940.

That mean any Jabo available, for all other units excepting Erp.Gr 210 before this date.

-The Bf 109E-7 entry in service with the I./LG 2 in August 1940.

That mean any E-7 available before this date y only from this day for this unit.

Same for entry in service of Spifires MK II or Hurricane MK II, etc, etc,etc.

[JG5_emil]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

The only way to successfully merge the positive points of both is to fly in a dynamic online campaign with players that will agree to do things like they were done back then even if it gives them a disadvantage. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but good luck maintaining that on a large enough scale to have MP qualify as historically accurate in the majority of cases.

A significant number of people do fly that way in online wars but another significant number fly the way Danelov described and as such, i can't just ignore the statistic and claim MP is accurate by default. MP is as accurate as the players themselves and the mission designer/server host want it to be, in fact, even if the mission designer does set out to do things a certain way it still doesn't work out if the players don't go along with it.

Well said!

It has been many years that I played the online wars in IL2 but they were fantastic until it just got crazy competitive with people using every exploit they could in order to win. There were people reading the mission files so they could see data they weren't meant to, then there was the stupid use of smoke and landing lights it utterly ruined the aspects that I loved which was to get the best of both worlds with a dynamic campaign but with human piloted aircraft.

There is no getting away from the fact that the diversity of human pilot skill and the fact that we all make mistakes is superior to any AI but then human nature will always try to find short cuts and exploits in order to win. This is what makes flying against humans so great but so frustrating.

I think they shouldn't focus on one or the other but at the same time they should be smart. The community can and will do a better job that the devs in certain areas (missions, campaigns, online wars etc) which is why the tools must be there for them to get on with it. I think they should just keep focused on the game play aspects, FM/DM, fixing things that are broken and making it possible that both on and offline pilots can have a good experience.

So if the community is to make offline campaigns then maybe there needs to be stats and medals etc for the offliners and the AI must be as good as possible. Obviously for the onliners they need the MP to be fixed and then make it possible for wars and coops etc.