COOPS possible with yesterday's patch?

[Thee_oddball]

Originally Posted by Ataros

Here you are. Documentation on C# scripting http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...=vs.71%29.aspx

The SDK will probably include models import tools and map creation tools. I do not think the devs will reprint a 300-page "C# for Dummies" or "Introduction to C#" book in the SDK. Anyway why wait for reprint when the original is available already.

Ataros that is unrealistic m8, you cant expect the avg flight sim guy is going to read a 300 book on C#...can you imagine how a new guy would feel...this is his first flight sim and its daunting enough just getting off the runway not to mention flying in formation or dogfighting or bombing and so on...and then going into FMB and having to learn that and then be told they have to read a 300 page book on C#..

every one enjoys this game in there own way from air-quake to hard core and everything in between and as such should have access to the classic COOP format if all he/they want todo is build a handful of COOPS to play with there m8,s on a Saturday night over a few beers.

The Devs are really going to have to come up with some kinda GUI along with a tutorial and some documentation in regards to the scripting aspect of the game. Something along the lines of UQMG
from UberDemon.


I know they are going to bring it back but it should have been in the game to begin with because it is just another aspect of the game that enriches it overall....there are enough COOPS over at M4T and other sites that would keep a new guy busy for over a year.

I really! appreciate what you and all the others guys are doing in terms of the scripts and im not trying to bump heads with you I am just playing devils advocate .

S!

[_1SMV_Arden]

Originally Posted by Ataros

Here you are. Documentation on C# scripting http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...=vs.71%29.aspx

The SDK will probably include models import tools and map creation tools. I do not think the devs will reprint a 300-page "C# for Dummies" or "Introduction to C#" book in the SDK. Anyway why wait for reprint when the original is available already.

My job is c# programmer... my script on il2 COD are ok, but we think it right that I should study the objects created by a guy who even know and understand that the role assigned without a shred of documentation?

Thanks for the link, I'll make good use

[335th_GRAthos]

Originally Posted by Ataros

Type and number of available aircraft can be limited with a script like it is done in this mission http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=23579

Nice job Ataros, many thanks for the link and nice to see that somebody already created what the old COOPs used to do!

I admit, having to learn C is a bit of a turn off but the possibilities of using a programming language as interface for a game simulation even for simple users, is tremendous potential!

It may take a bit of time but soon there will be a lot of programming wiz-kids spending time creating virtual battlefields.

~S~

[Hanzu]

Originally Posted by Ataros

If you played Warbirds, WWII Online, Aces High or ADW server in IL-2 you may notice that none of the above had a limited coop mode. The reason is simple: there is no coop mode in real life airwarfare. In real life you get to airfield, receive briefing, get in an aircraft at hangar, communicate with your squad mates and taxi to runway for takeoff. Then you proceed with your mission objectives and you may even not meet any opposition in the air sometimes. (The only thing missing at Repka #1 ATM from this list is proper briefings.)

In IL-2 Sturmovik 1946 4.08-4.09 there were total of 84 official COOP missions if you played both RED and BLUE as separate missions and forbidded human players to go on two different sides.

So imagine how disappointed I was when I noticed Cliffs Of Dover includes one official COOP mission. Which is not working, I mean I as a host could not even get inside the aircraft. It worked by default like observer mode and just watched how lame AI pilot crashed into a mountain every time.

Lack of "cooperative missions" promised in the back of the gamebox cannot be excused by saying you should not want to COOP because it is unrealistic. Why was the difficulty settings easy, normal and custom added, if you want to encourage us to real life airwarfare?

Ironically I would not mind if there would be no difficulty settings at all, since I have never played IL-2 series on nothing else than full realism (with the exception of No Icons disabled).

There reason for me and my gamebuddies want to play COOP and COOP only is that we are tired of competition, cheating and "I want to be the best" -egoism that many player versus player games or gamemodes offers. Isn't there already enough competition and fighting between humans in the world already, so why shouldn't I want to use this simulator to simulate fight between humans and never-give-up AI.

In COOP your opponent will not get tired, will not go to change baby diapers, will not go AFK, BRB and so on. Also enemy never cheats, will never get tired of stalking or camping, he can wait for you forever or chase you forever. We just like COOP and there is noway to turn us away from it.

If you want to drop off COOP because it is unrealistic, get rid of everything else that is unrealistic too, like the difficulty settings and replace it with full realism only.

Those who have worked for the IL-2 original COOP missions, should be happy that there are/were people who enjoyed playing them and not everyone just play dogfights, ADW or custom missions. Like we used to do.

[CaptainDoggles]

In summary: Some people want things to be exactly like il2fb was and are threatened by change.

[Thee_oddball]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

In summary: Some people want things to be exactly like il2fb was and are threatened by change.

Originally Posted by _1SMV_Arden

My job is c# programmer... my script on il2 COD are ok, but we think it right that I should study the objects created by a guy who even know and understand that the role assigned without a shred of documentation?

Thanks for the link, I'll make good use

perhaps its not fear of change but fear of being blind..

S!

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by Hanzu

In IL-2 Sturmovik 1946 4.08-4.09 there were total of 84 official COOP missions if you played both RED and BLUE as separate missions and forbidded human players to go on two different sides.

So imagine how disappointed I was when I noticed Cliffs Of Dover includes one official COOP mission. Which is not working, I mean I as a host could not even get inside the aircraft. It worked by default like observer mode and just watched how lame AI pilot crashed into a mountain every time.

Lack of "cooperative missions" promised in the back of the gamebox cannot be excused by saying you should not want to COOP because it is unrealistic. Why was the difficulty settings easy, normal and custom added, if you want to encourage us to real life airwarfare?

Ironically I would not mind if there would be no difficulty settings at all, since I have never played IL-2 series on nothing else than full realism (with the exception of No Icons disabled).

There reason for me and my gamebuddies want to play COOP and COOP only is that we are tired of competition, cheating and "I want to be the best" -egoism that many player versus player games or gamemodes offers. Isn't there already enough competition and fighting between humans in the world already, so why shouldn't I want to use this simulator to simulate fight between humans and never-give-up AI.

In COOP your opponent will not get tired, will not go to change baby diapers, will not go AFK, BRB and so on. Also enemy never cheats, will never get tired of stalking or camping, he can wait for you forever or chase you forever. We just like COOP and there is noway to turn us away from it.

If you want to drop off COOP because it is unrealistic, get rid of everything else that is unrealistic too, like the difficulty settings and replace it with full realism only.

Those who have worked for the IL-2 original COOP missions, should be happy that there are/were people who enjoyed playing them and not everyone just play dogfights, ADW or custom missions. Like we used to do.

What people are trying to explain here is that the reason we have no pure Coop mode is the same reason we have no pure DF mode: the new multiplayer mode supports both at the same time. How it works depends on how you set things up in the FMB and how you join the teams, if you want to you can have a coop within a DF server, or a pure DF server or a pure Coop.

It's not like the sim is forcing you to use a certain feature just because it's there. You can ignore it and use only what you want, for example you don't set multiple spawn points all over the map so that people are forced to stick to the coop scenario and not turn it into a DF map.

You can set everything up like a coop (one team of players vs one team of AI) and fly, the only thing that's changed is that there's no big sign in neon letters making a distinction between the two modes anymore: you have all the features at your disposal, choosing what to use is a matter of how the mission is designed in the FMB. Which to be honest, is not very different to IL2:1946 since it also required a few different steps in how a mission was designed.

The only problem is that it's hard to click on aircraft in the pre-flight map but that's not a fundamental design flaw, it's just an interface issue.

I hope i'm making myself clear, what i'm trying to say is that the only thing that's changed is the labels, we can still fly a pure DF scenario or a pure Coop scenario if we have a suitable mission made in the FMB.

[EAF331 Starfire]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

The only problem is that it's hard to click on aircraft in the pre-flight map but that's not a fundamental design flaw, it's just an interface issue.

I hope i'm making myself clear, what i'm trying to say is that the only thing that's changed is the labels, we can still fly a pure DF scenario or a pure Coop scenario if we have a suitable mission made in the FMB.

So how do I recreate my fundemental 2 vs 1 Bracket mission from IL-2?

It is a 2 vs 1 with airstart. Friends and foes can se the other.
Pilots select the a/c before the mission start in order not to waste time.

The idear is that the mission can be rerun as many times as possible in order to create muscle memmory.
I have a sh*tload of very short training missions that was designed to save time and I don't know how to recreate them.

If I undestand you correctly, then there are no way this can be done!?

If my assumption is true that we can't select aircraft before mission start, I do find it a very fundemental flaw.

If I undestand you correctly, all that COOP-mode does is to prevent new aircrafts from spawning.
Something that can still be done in DF-mode.

I am confused

[xpupx]

Originally Posted by Ataros

There is no such things as "dogfight" and "coop" in CloD, only general "online" simulating real life (because you do not have separate dogfight and coop in real life). Dogfight and coop separation was a limitation of the original IL-2 engine.

Probably you mean lack of coop-style missions when yo say coop is not available. Just create your own missions with bots and spawn-points as I mentioned above. FMB and unlimited C# scripting possibilities are there for you.

If this is the case then why do you have a choice to save the maps you make as a Co-Op or Dogfight? If they were the same there would be no need for this option!

[Ataros]

Originally Posted by xpupx

If this is the case then why do you have a choice to save the maps you make as a Co-Op or Dogfight? If they were the same there would be no need for this option!

In original IL-2 there was a technical reason to have separate coop and dogfight: in coop you could have moving AI bots, in dogfight you could have spawnpoints but you could not have both on the same server at the same time (before recent mods were developed by community 6-7 years after the release).

In IL-2:CoD you can have AI bots in 'dogfight' and spawnpoints in 'coop'. 'Coop' in Il-2:CoD is a 'dogfight' map without spawnpoints, i.e. limited version of dogfight.

Say you can have a furball server like Repka 1 with action concentrating between 3-4 airfields and at the same time you can have old style 'coop' missions starting at the same server within the same virtual airspace from airfields located further away from the frontlines. Several such missions can start at the same time from different airfields. When player joins server he reads general briefing describing which missions are available at which airfields. Then depending on airfield selected the player reads specific airfield briefing and flies either a furball/dogfight mission if selected a frontline airfield or a 'coop' mission if selected one of remote 'coop' airfields. Thus flying your 'coop' mission you can meet players flying other 'coop' missions or even 'dogfight' players like it was in real life.

I do not know why anyone would limit himself to old style 8 vs. 8 duels when these amazing possibilities are available in the new engine. This is only psychological limitation I assume as people tend to reject anything they are not accustomed to.