Germany did not lose the Battle of Britain

[ElAurens]

A victory by any means is still a victory, no matter how the Luftwaffe apologists paint it.

[Asheshouse]

Stephen Bungay 2000, p368 -- Fighter Command's victory was decisive. Not only had it survived, it ended the battle stronger than it had ever been. On 6 July its operational strength stood at 1,259 pilots. On 2 November, the figure was 1,796, an increase of over 40%. It had also seriously mauled its assailant. In a lecture held in Berlin on 2 February 1944, the intelligence officer of KG 2, Hauptmann Otto Bechle, showed that from August to December 1940 German fighter strength declined by 30% and bomber strength by 25%.

A fairly compelling argument I think.

[Crumpp]

Unfortunately many gamers want to place the significance for England's victory on the simplistic concept of their favorite game shapes performance. That is simply not true as design contemporaries did not have the performance gaps required to play any significant in combat.

It is the same silly a notion as Americans claiming the P-51 or any other USAAF designs performance won the air war in Western Europe.

It is arguable that the Battle of Britain was lost long before the Second World War started.

By providing the proper economic and logistics basis for realizing these plans, the air staffs had also established the foundation for increasing Allied air superiority as the war progressed. This is not to say their prewar planning was without flaws. Indeed, at a tactical and operational level, the Luftwaffe enjoyed self-evident advantages. However, by getting the fundamentals right and being prepared to learn from painful early reverses, the Royal Air Force placed itself in a significantly stronger position than the Luftwaffe to fight the Battle of Britain.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...4/ai_74582443/

In terms of aerial combat losses, Fighter Command took a mauling. In the air, the RAF pilots just did not have the training, tactics, or experience to deal with the Germans. Dowding recognized from the beginning though that all FC had to do was survive.

It did not have to maul the Germans in the air. The Germans lacked a logistical system that could replace their losses at the same pace as the RAF. Thus overtime, despite their training, tactical, and experience advantage as an organization the Luftwaffe fewer losses had a larger impact.

What makes this all the more surprising is that Fighter Command's operational losses were significantly higher than those suffered by the Luftwaffe's fighter force (Figure 4). This was equally true for the Battle of France as it was for the Battle of Britain. Thus, for 4 months, July-October 1940, Fighter Command lost more than 900 Hurricanes and Spitfires [37] compared to 600 Bf 109s recorded by the Luftwaffe quartermaster returns. [38]

Not only was FC superior in numbers of single seat fighters and pilots, they flew many more sorties. On average, they had more fighter airplanes in the air and outnumbered their German opponents at the tip of the spear.



None of the facts change the emotional and cultural views taught in English school history. "The Few" grossly outnumbered in their elegant Spitfires and flying circles around the invading evil Nazi's is an image that will forever inspire us.

[MaxGunz]

The BoB wasn't about fighter vs fighter. The RAF prime goal was to attack bombers. Bomber losses did count and they counted more than fighter losses.

Imagine if the LW only sent fighters over? LOL! Think maybe they should have done it that way?

As for a mauling, Sept 15th when the RAF was supposed to have been worn down they did just what to the massed attack that day?

For whatever reason, Hitler was forced to leave the back door open and that did seal the doom of the Third Reich. So who won?

[Crumpp]

The BoB wasn't about fighter vs fighter.

Sure it was. Fighters are the only aircraft capable of winning and holding air superiority. The mission of the Luftwaffe was to gain and hold that air superiority over the invasion area.

For brevity, the analysis focuses primarily on the single-seat fighters deployed by the respective air forces. It was in this arena that the Luftwaffe needed to prevail if it were to achieve air superiority over southern England and, in so doing, defeat the Royal Air Force.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...4/ai_74582443/

Bomber losses did count and they counted more than fighter losses.

Yes, I agree. The German logistical system was not prepared to handle a protracted campaign. They simply could not replace losses at the rate the RAF' system could thanks to some brilliant pre-war planning.

So even though the RAF on a tactical level suffered higher losses in air to air combat, on a strategic level, they bled the Luftwaffe dry.

Erwin Rommel: "Amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics".

[Untamo]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

Sure it was. Fighters are the only aircraft capable of winning and holding air superiority. The mission of the Luftwaffe was to gain and hold that air superiority over the invasion area.

Nooot entirely true. The German strategy was heavily bent on disabling the British airfields with bombers by cratering them and destroying planes on them. Which they did quite efficiently. So efficiently that the air defence of Southern England was on the brink of collapse...until some stray German bomber accidentally dropped its bombs in the London suburbs. Churchill ordered a retaliation for attacking civilian targets.

After the British retaliation strikes on German cities, angered Hitler ordered the bombers concentrate on Britain's cities, mainly London, which of course let the British repair the fields and continue operating them.

Biiig mistake. I seriously believe that there might have been a very different outcome to the battle if this hadn't happened... But that's just pure speculation

[Crumpp]

Originally Posted by Untamo

Nooot entirely true. The German strategy was heavily bent on disabling the British airfields with bombers by cratering them and destroying planes on them. Which they did quite efficiently. So efficiently that the air defence of Southern England was on the brink of collapse...until some stray German bomber accidentally dropped its bombs in the London suburbs. Churchill ordered a retaliation for attacking civilian targets.

After the British retaliation strikes on German cities, angered Hitler ordered the bombers concentrate on Britain's cities, mainly London, which of course let the British repair the fields and continue operating them.

Biiig mistake. I seriously believe that there might have been a very different outcome to the battle if this hadn't happened... But that's just pure speculation

What you are saying is correct as far as the action taken by the Luftwaffe. That does not change the fact the LW mission was to gain air superiority over the invasion area.

DIRECTIVE NO. 17

FOR THE CONDUCT OF AIR AND NAVAL WARFARE AGAINST ENGLAND

For the purpose of creating conditions for the final defeat of Britain, I intend continuing air and naval warfare against the English motherland in a more severe form than hitherto. For this purpose I order as follows:

1. The Luftwaffe will employ all forces available to eliminate the British air force as soon as possible. In the initial stages, attacks will be directed primarily against the hostile air forces and their ground service organization and supply installations, and against air armament industries, including factories producing AAA equipment.

2. Once temporary or local air superiority is achieved, operations will continue against ports, particularly against installations for the storage of food, and against food storage installations farther inland. In view of intended future German operations, attacks against ports on the south coast of England will be restricted to a minimum.

3. Air operations against hostile naval and merchant ships will be considered a secondary mission during this phase unless particularly lucrative fleeting opportunities offer or unless such action will achieve increased effects in the operations prescribed under Item 2, above, or in the case of operations serving to train aircraft crews for the continued conduct of air warfare.

4. The intensified air offensive will be so conducted that adequately strong air forces can be made available whenever required to support naval operations against favorable fleeting targets. In addition, the Luftwaffe will remain prepared to render effective support for Operation Sea Lion.

5. Terrorization attacks as retaliatory measures will be carried out only on orders from me.

6. Intensified air warfare can commence at any time from 5 August on. The Luftwaffe will itself determine the deadline after completion of its preparations and in accordance with weather conditions.

s/ Adolf Hitler

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/ETO/...-German-A.html

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

Now that is some pathetic sheet! Pure postwar-propaganda.
Sometimes I'm pretty glad, that I am living in the 'land that lost'.

[Asheshouse]

As things played out the fact is that the Luftwaffe failed to gain air superiority, a pre-requisite for an invasion attempt and therefore failed strategically.

Tactically the issue was undecided. The RAF refused to be drawn into a fighter v fighter struggle and concentrated on attacks on the bombers, which were the only thing that could do damage. Dowding carefully managed the strength and fighting efficiency of the RAF by holding units back and rotating units out of the southeast sector.

Now the big "what if" -- If the German forces had decided to attempt an invasion and if the Luftwaffe could prevent the Royal Navy intervening then the RAF would have been forced into a fighter v fighter conflict for air supremacy over the channel coast. Things may then have gone very differently.

[MaxGunz]

Planes can be replaced far quicker than pilots and crew. The LW lost a lot of trained pilots and crew -for no real gain- in the BoB. How many of those had been glider pilots since they were kids, knowing energy and maneuver in ways most power pilots don't learn for a long time?

There is also the morale loss to the entire German military. They were stopped for the first time. But that's okay since they got used to it in time to ;earn the new lessons; How to Lose Ground 101, 201, etc.