Mods discussion, links, etc

[WWFlybert]

SaQSoN

With respect sir, you are mistaken regarding copyright, intellectual property regarding game mods, at least regarding USA law

In USA, to sue you must show monetary damages, so while if anyone were to take 1C or UbiSoft copyright material and resell it without permission, 1C and Ubisoft would certainly be damaged .. if anyone were to distribute the core game and it's files, even for free, that would indeed be theft and damage 1C and Ubisoft

Mods as distributed, do not work without the player having a copy of IL-2 1946, presumably legally purchased .. if anything, an argument could be made that many more copies of IL-2 1946 have been sold because of mods, than if the game had not been cracked and modded

If game mods could be stopped through legal process, then why did not 1C - UbiSoft do so at the first chance ? ..

I will tell you why .. because this issue has existed since at least 1996, and no software company to my knowledge, much less a PC game company, has successfully sued to prevent distribution of mods or additions to a software. Since Half Life was modded to become CounterStrike, quite a few Game companies have encouraged modding and distributed the tools to do so, because it increases sales and can sometimes allow the company to acquire new content inexpensively and increase sales .. sometimes those mods become a *new* game like CounterStrike

TD does not own the rights to IL-2 1946 .. UbiSoft and 1C do .. if you have not been properly compensated for your work .. you can not sue modders over it .. in fact ...

I find it odd that TD claims it gains no compensation from 1C - UbiSoft for their work, that would likely be against labor laws in all 50 states in USA

I presume you get permission for any unique user content added "officially" to IL-2 1946, any unique textures, 3d models .. anything .. and permission from any user created hacking tools you may have used .. because not to do so would clearly be a violation of those authors' copyright

And while I'm not giving a legal opinion, I have protected authors' rights in another flight sim / game, and have lead 2 mod groups that dealt with IP rights of flight sim / game rights holders ..

I both greatly respect developers rights and software user / modder rights , so please don't misunderstand .. I greatly respect 1C and TD and the work you have done that is IL-2 1946 today

However I can say with complete confidence that TD would get nowhere attempting legal action against mod groups for adding or changing content of IL-2 1946, and to make threats accomplishes nothing except alienating most of those that read this forum

I am not, BTW, an IL-2 modder, however as a player of the game, I find your attitude objectionable, despite greatly enjoying the work TD has done for the game.

I also find it objectionable that the UP 2.01 splash screen does not included the TD logo .. 4.09m includes your work, and I always believe full credit should be given in any compiled work, and thanks given to all authors' work in readme files

[SaQSoN]

Originally Posted by WWFlybert

SaQSoN

With respect sir, you are mistaken

Thank you for your advise. We are not concerned about 1C or Ubi-soft financial losses due to piracy. And this is not a topic of this discussion. May be, you should read my posts more carefully to find out what it is about.

Originally Posted by WWFlybert

If game mods could be stopped through legal process, then why did not 1C - UbiSoft do so at the first chance ? ..

Because no one, including 1C, Ubisoft, or DT doesn't care about mod existence. Obviously, this is the reason why no one would do anything to stop them. I can not even imagine, what a crazy idea makes you think, DT wants to destroy unofficial modding.

Originally Posted by WWFlybert

I find it odd that TD claims it gains no compensation from 1C - UbiSoft for their work, that would likely be against labor laws in all 50 states in USA

TD does not work for 1C, and is not it's subcontractor.

Originally Posted by WWFlybert

I presume you get permission for any unique user content added "officially" to IL-2 1946, any unique textures, 3d models .. anything .. and permission from any user created hacking tools you may have used .. because not to do so would clearly be a violation of those authors' copyright

You don't have to presume that. Everything, that is added into official add-ons, produced by DT, is added with permission from the respective authors. There was a small misunderstanding with author of flares, which has been settled long ago.
All tools, DT is using, are either created by DT members, or licensed from 1C.
Any person, that may tell you different story - is a deliberate liar.

And we know, there are certain people in the "unofficial mod community" who spread this lies with only aim to discredit DT's hard work. I wouldn't be surprised, if this is the same people, who did stole our work before and threaten to do that in the future.

[MicroWave]

Originally Posted by WWFlybert

...
In USA, to sue you must show monetary damages, so while if anyone were to take 1C or UbiSoft copyright material and resell it without permission, 1C and Ubisoft would certainly be damaged .. if anyone were to distribute the core game and it's files, even for free, that would indeed be theft and damage 1C and Ubisoft

Mods as distributed, do not work without the player having a copy of IL-2 1946, presumably legally purchased .. if anything, an argument could be made that many more copies of IL-2 1946 have been sold because of mods, than if the game had not been cracked and modded
...

I would just like to comment on this part. One could argue that mods are damaging 1C/UbiSoft profit because distribution of even new content for free in form of mods hurts sales of potential patches/addons with same or similar content. Furthermore, mods (could) negatively reflect on user perception of the official product by creating incompatibility between different versions, bugs unrelated to official product, etc. Finally, I'm pretty sure that re-distribution of software in whole or in parts without permission is illegal in good ol' USA too.

I just want to make clear that I think that those legal arguments are purely academic in context of Il2. I don't think that there is money left in Il2 worth more than a cup of coffee for everyone involved. Mods for Il2 are out there for quite some time. Most users understand what they bring in terms of content and risks. The situation is more complicated because Il2 was not designed to absorb mods while the game is still being officially developed. However, installation of Il2 is very simple and there are 3rd party tools which enable switching between different versions (including the official one). DT cannot guarantee that mods will work after new releases of the official product. I think this is understandable, because AFAIK different mods are not compatible between each other either.