Cliffs of Dover Is The Best. But Some Of You Don't Appreciate It.

[carguy_]

Originally Posted by Blue Scorpion

Except Oleg has nothing to do with this anymore, and what's more, people so conveniently forget, when IL2 was first released it was the only title in their stable, it was their only bread and butter, so they continued to work and polish with Oleg driving for perfection.

Oleg is gone........ so?

That is no longer the case, they have grown, and have many projects now, all deserving attention, and the original driving force has left the building along with Elvis. There are no guarantees whatsoever this title will get the same level or longevity of attention as IL2 , indeed there are many factors against that happening now.

There is no reason you should be constantly banging your head against the wall screaming that this won`t be as good as the IL2 Sturmovik. Luthier has been behind things AFAIK since Aces Expansion Pack so he qualifies as "the driving force". If you negate the potential of this title being any good in the future, just leave. Simple. You aren`t changing anyone`s opinion anyway.

People keep talking, banging on and on, saying it will be great in a year, or two; but in truth, they do not have a damn clue what level of support this title is likely to get. Moreover, the incessant droning about its rosy future, is just as annoying as those complaining, because the product as it stands TODAY is a broken mess, and Luthier and co have our money in their pockets now, today, not two years from now.

As of TODAY, I have spent a total of 40€ to play this game. That is all I payed for giving those folks some slack. Payed for their jobs and payed them to work in the future. Now those who have stayed with IL2 since 2001 have every right and proof to say that the game will be great, in some time. Meanwhile, those complaining are doing just that - complaining. You must be quite a sad person to get a spazmatic cry over 40€.

Everyone posting about how grand it will all be when fixed and branding everyone who disagrees is a "hater" or "troll" and claiming they should not post, should take a long hard look in that mirror. You are expressing an opinion, but would deny others the right to express theirs, simply because they disagree with you; and that my friends, makes you one and all, a bunch of hypocrites'; a beast, far worse than those who quite rightly complain about something they have paid for not working as advertised.

Constructive criticism is always welcome. Your post is just another example of a person who needs to get a life, because obviously he doesn`t have anything else to do in his sad existance other than to sit in front of a pc.
I understand your life is shaterred.

Originally Posted by carguy_

Meanwhile, those complaining are doing just that - complaining. You must be quite a sad person to get a spazmatic cry over 40€.

wake up princess, average salary in croatia is around 680 €, with growing unemployment rate (we are the worst in this part of teh world now), with loans for flats ("given" from greedy foreign banks), all the expenses, 1L of gasoline costs 1.4 euros, you are left with almost nothing....and I have to pay full price not like in russia for cheaper...
SO YEAH 40€ is a luxury here...yep, it is a big deal mate....
BUT, I never "whined" because of the money but because CLOD was ADVERTISED (movies etc) as comopleted products.....and what we got? Look at my post at "mini update from devs"
I will wait till USA release, by then we will know what we will have on long terms....if they fail I wouldnt cry, I would sell or trash the epic failure of the game and still will be able to enjoy in old IL2, you know new UP and HSFX modes are on the horizon....its a different game now...

[HFC_Dolphin]

Originally Posted by Tvrdi

wake up princess, average salary in croatia is around 680 €, with growing unemployment rate (we are the worst in this part of teh world now), with loans for flats ("given" from greedy foreign banks), all the expenses, 1L of gasoline costs 1.4 euros, you are left with almost nothing....and I have to pay full price not like in russia for cheaper...
SO YEAH 40€ is a luxury here...yep, it is a big deal mate....

I've been telling this to many people: I know a lot of people who were huge fans of IL2 and just can't follow in Clod.
Their systems, though they can play decently IL-2, they can't even load Clod and this is pitty, cause some of them were among the best guys of the community.

It's really sad that this game will leave a quite big part of the community behind, only because of its performance and the costs involved...

PS. I spent 1.060 euros for a brand new tower, only to hear from some people that my performance problems are because of my system!!!
OK, next time I'll robe a bank in order to play this game...

Originally Posted by HFC_Dolphin

I've been telling this to many people: I know a lot of people who were huge fans of IL2 and just can't follow in Clod.
Their systems, though they can play decently IL-2, they can't even load Clod and this is pitty, cause some of them were among the best guys of the community.

It's really sad that this game will leave a quite big part of the community behind, only because of its performance and the costs involved...

PS. I spent 1.060 euros for a brand new tower, only to hear from some people that my performance problems are because of my system!!!
OK, next time I'll robe a bank in order to play this game...

I upgraded my rig (thanks to my part-time job I did for foreign company) to pretty decent setup....i7920@3.5Ghz on stock volt, GTX470 Twin frozr2 OC to 750 on core, 6GB of RAM, win7 64 bit...although I have a decent FPS the sim isnt smooth at all...above the land its even worse...I did all the optimisations and tweaks i know (I have pretty good HW and SW knowledge, was beat tester etc etc), but still no fdrastic improvement...I didnt expect to run CLOD full max but i cant run it decentlz on ANY settings...

[PVT_Shepperd]

Originally Posted by Tvrdi

I upgraded my rig (thanks to my part-time job I did for foreign company) to pretty decent setup....i7920@3.5Ghz on stock volt, GTX470 Twin frozr2 OC to 750 on core, 6GB of RAM, win7 64 bit...although I have a decent FPS the sim isnt smooth at all...above the land its even worse...I did all the optimisations and tweaks i know (I have pretty good HW and SW knowledge, was beat tester etc etc), but still no fdrastic improvement...I didnt expect to run CLOD full max but i cant run it decentlz on ANY settings...

My rig is slower than yours and CloD runs smooth on higher than medium settings. So its not the problem of missing computing power but a problem of the code. There are bugs in CloD and everyone saying this is just because of dumb users or slow rigs is damn wrong. Maybe thats it in a few cases but to blame everyone with problems running CloD is a bad choice.
There is much work left to do before CloD is the simulation we all have waited for. But I'll wait till it gets there mostly because of the lack of alternatives.

Originally Posted by PVT_Shepperd

My rig is slower than yours and CloD runs smooth on higher than medium settings. So its not the problem of missing computing power but a problem of the code. There are bugs in CloD and everyone saying this is just because of dumb users or slow rigs is damn wrong. Maybe thats it in a few cases but to blame everyone with problems running CloD is a bad choice.
There is much work left to do before CloD is the simulation we all have waited for. But I'll wait till it gets there mostly because of the lack of alternatives.

what we had in ROF..simmilar problem, game wasnt optimised (but to be fair was optimised much better than CLOD, from the release) and because of the "not optimised code" ROF was runnig like shhhh on some systems while on some (even slower) was running good....
so ITS THE CODE..period

[Baron]

Originally Posted by PVT_Shepperd

My rig is slower than yours and CloD runs smooth on higher than medium settings. So its not the problem of missing computing power but a problem of the code. There are bugs in CloD and everyone saying this is just because of dumb users or slow rigs is damn wrong. Maybe thats it in a few cases but to blame everyone with problems running CloD is a bad choice.
.

True, but saying ALL the problems is due to bad coding (like 99% of those saying that have any idea of what they speak of) is equally wrong.

Bugs and compatibility problems is one thing. "Bad" coding is something else.

[PVT_Shepperd]

Originally Posted by Baron

True, but saying ALL the problems is due to bad coding (like 99% of those saying that have any idea of what they speak of) is equally wrong.

Bugs and compatibility problems is one thing. "Bad" coding is something else.

You got me wrong, I think. I totally agree to what you say. There are obviously many things missing, some are just placeholders (which should have been said) and some are just wrong. Also there are many people with a system which is set up badly and there are those guys who think have a superior rig and complain that full setting is not working.
I understand those people complaining about things promised and now missing cos they have paid for. This had to be said (one time). Bashing the game and spaming in every thread is a whole different thing and annoyes other people using this forum and also the admins and developers reading this. So, complaining is okay if done in one of this existing threads in a adequate way.
The developers has proven that they are willing to improve the game and they dont ignore wishes from the community. Thats what makes me saying the money spent to the collectors edition has been worth it.

[Zoom2136]

Originally Posted by HFC_Dolphin

I've been telling this to many people: I know a lot of people who were huge fans of IL2 and just can't follow in Clod.
Their systems, though they can play decently IL-2, they can't even load Clod and this is pitty, cause some of them were among the best guys of the community.

It's really sad that this game will leave a quite big part of the community behind, only because of its performance and the costs involved...

PS. I spent 1.060 euros for a brand new tower, only to hear from some people that my performance problems are because of my system!!!
OK, next time I'll robe a bank in order to play this game...

It is sad... but what... you want a game with 2011 bells and whistles that runs on 3-5 year old PCs? It would be nice if it was possible but it's not the way that current technology works... Maybe when "cloud" gaming is a reality, upgrading our machine will be a thing of the past, but for now... you got to pay to play.

[HFC_Dolphin]

Originally Posted by Zoom2136

It is sad... but what... you want a game with 2011 bells and whistles that runs on 3-5 year old PCs? It would be nice if it was possible but it's not the way that current technology works... Maybe when "cloud" gaming is a reality, upgrading our machine will be a thing of the past, but for now... you got to pay to play.

I'll have to disagree for the simple reason that what happens with Clod is not what's happening with pc games in general.
Most users who can't play Clod at all, actually can play any other 2011 game in lowest settings. Which leads us to the usual reply "Clod is like no other game, as it is far superior to all of them", which leads to usual reply "you must be joking, have you seen Crysis 2 or other major modern titles?", which leads to next reply "they have nice graphics but small maps", which leads to next reply "exactly! Clod devs should find what makes the game unplayable, be it huge map, or too many buildings, or windmills working with wind and offer some solution", which leads to next reply "...", LOOP.

In any case, I think that Stenka gave a nice reply that I'm very close wth it:

Originally Posted by =69.GIAP=STENKA

This was a development management problem and it is now a marketing management problem.

If you put put a development team in a closed environment without regular product contact with real users for 6 years and constantly slippable deadlines you are asking for trouble.

They will fiddle with technicaly and philosphicaly intersesting stuff and will not even notice real world requirements.

Every Sim developper will as a professional always have the latest hot PC setup, so will not notice that performance is an issue. He will build a quirky user interface which he always tests in the same way and think it's obvious to anyone that it should work that way, users are so stupid. A complete manual, documentation and content are not interesting, after six years immersed in the product he thinks humans are born with a head full of such inate knowledge or can make it up themselves.

Note carefully, IL2 was not developed this way. If I remember right they bought out a limited prototype which was first released to the public as a demo way before the product. From that point it had constant user feedback which refined it and kept it on-track.

OK so the problem exists, you can't fix the past, what's happening now?

Well they could have put in a development manager to spend another 12 months trying to sort it out.... and probably money would run out...

The other choice is to stick it on the street, let user feedback focus the development team on real world issues and well it will sink or swim.

As far as I'm concerned it was a good decision. Another 12 months in the closed room with a manager weilding a baseball bat and it might have been all lost.

What you will now see is the development team reacting like a scalded cat and delivering patches

The current marketing problem is a bit more regretful. It would have been more honest if they had offered the chance for customers to buy a copy so they could participate in product testing. I think a lot of us would have bought in to that - I would have.

However, you don't get rich in marketing by scrupulous honesty, so I can understand the decision.

Now what are we going to do about it?

1/ Say there is no problem
2/ Have a good rant
3/ Throw the toys out of the pram
4/ Get testing and log nice clear bug reports
5/ Get back to real life and start complaining that I have to press shift F1 to see 109 gunsight and while I'm on the subject it dives slower than a spitfire and..
6/ Have a go at Stenka cos what he's said is immoral
7/ Open a beer and chill out

Now all together now, in chorus let's.....

I know that eventually, be it one or two years from now, more people will be able to play the game, when hardware gets cheaper, but still I'm too sad cause I'll miss a lot of online friends because of what I understand was a bad developer's project schedule.
Even the most certified fanboys have to admit this, otherwise it's like there's no connection. Like we're screaming to each other with only our voices from different planets in different galaxies.