Question about graphic card & about directx

[Heliocon]

Originally Posted by Codex

I think there needs to be some clarification made here ...

There's no real difference between DX10 and DX10.1 in terms of feature sets, and there is certainly no performance gain using DX10.1 over DX10 at all.

DX10.1 was an update in standards not features, DX10.1 made graphic card vendors make some optional components of the DX10 API mandatory in their hardware.

The main standards to be mandatory were:
- 32-bit floating point filtering
- 4xAA sampling and two specific sample patterns.
- Programmable shader output sample masks and multi-sample AA depth read backs.

In terms of DX11, it is just DX10.1 with three additional features made to the API:

DX11 = DX10.1 + Tessellation + Multithreaded rendering + Compute Shaders

People need to remember that DX11 also includes COM objects from the DX7 API such as DXInput calls and the like. What that means is each new "version" of Direct X is not a complete rework of the API, it's merely added features being implemented.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...=vs.85%29.aspx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microso...#Direct3D_10.1

You are wrong, I am so tired of correction people on this forum its driving me up the wall. Also for a start I dont see why you repeating my statements about DX11 helps your argument because thats exactly what I said. But despite that the DX11 features are significantly more powerful then anything in dx10/10.1, I have gone over this is in great detail a million times already so I will just link you to the posts.
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...795#post233795

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Level_Shader_Language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX#DirectX_10
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct3D#Direct3D_10.1
Dx10.1 allows shader model 4.1 and parrallel cube mapping (basically it improves shader/lighting performance greatly) and established standards for hardware so you dont have crappy cards that cant actually run any dx10 features used, aka a dx10.1 card will be able to use dx10 features decently where as a dx10 card most likely cannot. For example look at Shogun 2 - DX10 cards will not be getting AA while dx10.1 cards will be.

DX11 features added are a massive performance improvement when used properly. But out of interest, what did was the purpose of your post exactly? Do you disagree that a 400 range card will easily beat out a 200 range? Or are you just saying dx10=dx11? Because there is a monstrous differance interms of upper end capacity, but in any case DX11 is 100% the way to go.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Originally Posted by Heliocon

Or are you just saying dx10=dx11?

For some one who keeps complaining that nobody reads their posts it's surprising that you don't bother to read other people.

Codex quite clearly said

Originally Posted by Codex

DX11 = DX10.1 + Tessellation + Multithreaded rendering + Compute Shaders

[jf1981]

Is IL-2 CoD supporting dx 10.1 or 11 ?

Regards

[Skoshi Tiger]

CoD uses DirectX 10 features in windows Vista and Windows 7 and DirectX 9 in Windows XP.

Because DirectX10 is a subset of DirectX11 if your running Windows 7 or vista with DirectX 11 you just use DirectX11. When the developers decide to implement the DirectX11 only features you will need a DirectX 11 graphics card to access those features.


from Wikipedia
"Direct3D 11 runs on Windows Vista and Windows 7. It will run on future Windows operating systems as well. Parts of the new API such as multi-threaded resource handling can be supported on Direct3D 9/10/10.1-class hardware. Hardware tessellation and Shader Model 5.0 require Direct3D 11 supporting hardware.[32] Microsoft has since released the Direct3D 11 Technical Preview.[33] Direct3D 11 is a strict superset of Direct3D 10.1 — all hardware and API features of version 10.1 are retained, and new features are added only when necessary for exposing new functionality. This helps to keep backwards compatibility with previous versions of DirectX."
Cheers!

[jf1981]

Turned another side, would the game look nicer (recent amazing visual effects) while changing from (for example) Nvidia 260 to 5xx serie which - as far as I understand - does support a feature rich set of visual effects on top of the old ones.

Thanks

[322Sqn_Dusty]

The game gives dx10_0 in the conf file. try to change that for 10.1? Won't work

[Heliocon]

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

CoD uses DirectX 10 features in windows Vista and Windows 7 and DirectX 9 in Windows XP.

Because DirectX10 is a subset of DirectX11 if your running Windows 7 or vista with DirectX 11 you just use DirectX11. When the developers decide to implement the DirectX11 only features you will need a DirectX 11 graphics card to access those features.


from Wikipedia
"Direct3D 11 runs on Windows Vista and Windows 7. It will run on future Windows operating systems as well. Parts of the new API such as multi-threaded resource handling can be supported on Direct3D 9/10/10.1-class hardware. Hardware tessellation and Shader Model 5.0 require Direct3D 11 supporting hardware.[32] Microsoft has since released the Direct3D 11 Technical Preview.[33] Direct3D 11 is a strict superset of Direct3D 10.1 — all hardware and API features of version 10.1 are retained, and new features are added only when necessary for exposing new functionality. This helps to keep backwards compatibility with previous versions of DirectX."
Cheers!

"Because DirectX10 is a subset of DirectX11 if your running Windows 7..."

Really? I was talking about what you typed, not what you quoted (just noting what I thought was an unintentional discrepency).

[Skoshi Tiger]

Originally Posted by Heliocon

"Because DirectX10 is a subset of DirectX11 if your running Windows 7..."

Really? I was talking about what you typed, not what you quoted (just noting what I thought was an unintentional discrepency).

No what I said is logically(and mathematically) correct. You are either miss-reading it or are trolling.

IF DirectX11 is a Superset of DirectX 10.1 THEN DirectX 10.1 MUST logically be a SubsSet of DirectX11.

from Wiki again
"Direct3D 11 is a strict superset of Direct3D 10.1 — all hardware and API features of version 10.1 are retained, and new features are added only when necessary for exposing new functionality. This helps to keep backwards compatibility with previous versions of DirectX.

"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX_10#DirectX_10

For your argument in this case to be correct you must be able to list one feature of DirectX10.1 that is not in DirectX11.

[Heliocon]

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

No what I said is logically(and mathematically) correct. You are either miss-reading it or are trolling.

IF DirectX11 is a Superset of DirectX 10.1 THEN DirectX 10.1 MUST logically be a SubsSet of DirectX11.

from Wiki again
"Direct3D 11 is a strict superset of Direct3D 10.1 — all hardware and API features of version 10.1 are retained, and new features are added only when necessary for exposing new functionality. This helps to keep backwards compatibility with previous versions of DirectX.

"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX_10#DirectX_10

For your argument in this case to be correct you must be able to list one feature of DirectX10.1 that is not in DirectX11.

You are correct - I made a mistake because I was taking chronological order into account and I got my terms wrong. My bad m8

[Heliocon]

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

For some one who keeps complaining that nobody reads their posts it's surprising that you don't bother to read other people.

Codex quite clearly said

He also said there is no performance differance between dx10 and dx10.1 other then standardizing the chips. Then he said dx10.1 = dx11 but dx11 has more features. You do understand how to use formal logic right? If A=B (which he said didnt change anything other then a hardware requirment), then he said B=C (with C adding additional features), but then said that DX11 other then additional developer features does not increase performance over dx10.1 and therefore he is saying A=C and C just has standardized requirments and additional end features, but no performance improvement.

As for dx11 on vista - I actually did not know that they made it back compatible now, I cant believe I missed that (and when I am wrong or learn something new I always mention it if you read my posts).
Now to be nitpicky DX11 is a subset of DX10, which is quoted in your quotes (so I imagine this is a simple mistype error). Given that DX11 is a huge leap in reality. Shader model 5 is alot faster and efficient for ssao and other lighting effects than dx10.1. Also DX11 has the abilitiy to use rasterizing/ray tracing which we will see in the future, along with tesselation for planes and especially terrain (huge detail boost and easy and fast for devs to use) along with direct compute which I suggested mid last year should be used for the sea/water, also for smoke and particle physics which would enable a plane flying through a smoke collumb to disturb the smoke/particles realistically which would be incredible (as well as clouds). I was pretty much firmly dismissed especially after the news that DX11 would not be in release, I believe one of the devs even said that they would only use tesselation for plane wheels... I said that was absurd and laid out why it should be used. Now I dont think it was due to me but the interview I linked obviously shows a major 180 interms of using dx11, especially tesselation. Also they will use direct compute for FM physics and they need DX11 to take full advantage of modern cpus, which again I strongly advocated for and was told that it would not make a differance in performance/was too hard/no one has them, and now obviously the multithreading is the big thing this game needs to improve performance (so I was right again).

Now this doesnt mean by any stretch that I am always right, but over time I have been pretty much spot on with predictions.