Worthless spells

[Tianx]

Exorcism has limited use especially at the later stages of the game where there is a lot of demon and undead. If you look at the damage modifier, it actually stacks quite a bit with all the items added but yes, it's a weak spell and should be an AOE/DOT instead of one direct hit.

I think by far, the worst spell is still Book of Evil. Never use it and never invest and crystal in even getting the spell.

[Fatt_Shade]

Here is example why Exorcism is crapy spell - i got 81 int Mage, 2 Gloves of destroyer, Necklase of exorcist and magic light 3 lvl (+20% for some spells) and in the end 20k dmg with Exorcist spell for 30 mana on 1 unit !!! Much better to sped 30 mana on Geyser and make 10-15K dmg on 8 units.
Still i think Life light is among worthless spells. I dont need healing for 10k Hp, i need to ressurect. Only use for this spell is 5th lvl lineup and nothing else

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

Here is example why Exorcism is crapy spell - i got 81 int Mage, 2 Gloves of destroyer, Necklase of exorcist and magic light 3 lvl (+20% for some spells) and in the end 20k dmg with Exorcist spell for 30 mana on 1 unit !!! Much better to sped 30 mana on Geyser and make 10-15K dmg on 8 units.
Still i thing Life light is among worthless spells. I dont need healing for 10k Hp, i need to ressurect. Only use for this spell is 5th lvl lineup and nothing else

Not to be nit picking, but by definition it isn't a worthless spell if there is a use for it, even if it is situational.

e.g. by saying there is a use for it for 5th level lineups implies, it isn't worthless. Especially since it can save me the trouble of casting Phantom for resurrecting a level 5.

Book of Evil... I find it very hard to make use of it in any really useful situation.

I agree that exorcism is a bit wasteful. I think I used to do double-cast exorcisms against Archdemons though, but I was quite noob back then.

I haven't done the math, but geyser is physical damage, so maybe some demons would resist that a bit better than exorcism? I still agree it is generally not so useful for the mana cost.

[Fatt_Shade]

Worthless isn`t same as useless.
I mean life light can be only used to heal NOT resurrect 5th lvl (using life light to heal any lower lvl is pure waste of mana). Lets say you have 5 5th lvl units (for resurrecting Rune mage is mandatory) , first you need to place them all together and then heal. Then again you need to cast Phantom to resurrect any fallen(more then 1 time probably). So it`s 2 spend turns to gather units around and then presume fight. I rather fight normally, then leave some weak enemy before ressing my troops while picking chests. Any spell have it`s use, but Life light is inconvenient because of small range, and high mana cost to be dmg dealing spell, and it doesnt resurrect If it worked like shamans ability Magic axes to heal any unit on battle field i would use it first, but now it`s to much trouble to gather units around.And since i`m not big fan of 5th lvl builds i`ll stay with Illusion/resurrecting for now.
Exsorcism is higher dmg magic spell, but again it`s single target for 30 mana, Geyser is 8 target physical for 30 mana. I just now checked 80Int, 2 Gloves of destroyer, Dragon cloak - Exorcism 17,5K dmg, Gayser 8,5-16K dmg. If you have only 1 enemy unit Exorcism is OK, but that is rarely case, so i prefere Gayser for 8 tagrets. As you mentioned physical resistance demons have 10% max, so only problem would be Ghostly units. All other undead/demons take 90-100% from Geyser.
And using Exorcism on summons (x2 dmg to summoned) is just silly, Dispel is better.

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

Worthless isn`t same as useless.
I mean life light can be only used to heal NOT resurrect 5th lvl (using life light to heal any lower lvl is pure waste of mana). Lets say you have 5 5th lvl units (for resurrecting Rune mage is mandatory) , first you need to place them all together and then heal. Then again you need to cast Phantom to resurrect any fallen(more then 1 time probably). So it`s 2 spend turns to gather units around and then presume fight. I rather fight normally, then leave some weak enemy before ressing my troops while picking chests. Any spell have it`s use, but Life light is inconvenient because of small range, and high mana cost to be dmg dealing spell, and it doesnt resurrect If it worked like shamans ability Magic axes to heal any unit on battle field i would use it first, but now it`s to much trouble to gather units around.And since i`m not big fan of 5th lvl builds i`ll stay with Illusion/resurrecting for now.
Exsorcism is higher dmg magic spell, but again it`s single target for 30 mana, Geyser is 8 target physical for 30 mana. I just now checked 80Int, 2 Gloves of destroyer, Dragon cloak - Exorcism 17,5K dmg, Gayser 8,5-16K dmg. If you have only 1 enemy unit Exorcism ia OK, but that is rarely case, so i prefere Gayser for 8 tagrets. As you mentioned physical resistance demons have 10% max, so only problem would be Ghostly units. All other undead/demons take 90-100% from Geyser.
And using Exorcism on summons (x2 dmg to summoned) is just silly, Dispel is better.

Heh, the Shrek build almost always has all of your level 5s near each other though. Also, in the battles where you are pressed in your own original line, it still applies. That's why you have high physical resists. I'd rather heal up 3 level 5 stacks rather than have them sit around, too afraid to attack because the retaliation will force me to require up to 3 more resurrections. The way the Shrek team rolls, a life light is very close to 3 resurrections.

Just because you aren't a fan of level 5 units doesn't make it a universally "worthless" spell. It is useful, albeit a little situational, for level 5s. It was quite a godsend when I finally got it.

I shouldn't call eviln a worthless spell when I only use non-undead units.

I agree that exorcism on summons is worthless. I don't know who suggested that.

However, in battles where the archdemon has not inflicted Halve damage to you, and if you do not have a lot of heavy damagers, sometimes the double-cast exorcism isn't so bad. Although I've found other alternatives that are generally better, but in those cases, Geyser wouldn't be it (in fact, I probably never cast Geyser in all of my games. )

[Fatt_Shade]

OK how`s this as an idea for healing your Shrek team ?
Instead of BD take Shaman. He`ll almost always be enraged because of Thirst for glory and have Magic axes on disposal, casting totems to suport your mele team, and kill alott of enemy (they wont be able to attack them behind your mele Shrek team. For Mage -25% leadership will mean much to recruit them, and +50 HP will make them great substitute for Sacrifice (Sacrifice them for some of Shrek units, them spend adrenaline to remove +50 hP and revive them with Rune mages/or turn back time).
+ they will have nice morale thx to commander from Ogres.
This way no need for spending runes on Voice of Dragon. I know ppl like BD for -1 inititative to enemy, and burning, and all that . . . but in Shrek movie there isnt Dragon without Donkey - Shaman is Donkey (or closest thing to it
Or kick Rune mages and go 3 mele, BD and Shaman (radical idea, but might be doable).
On side note, how does Shaman (regular and Blood) effect Chieftans 3 ability Spirit strike ? It`s not explained how does it work ?
I`m not big fan of 5th lvl because i have bad luck with them, and availability in almost all my games, last time i wanted to got Shrek and got 0 Chieftans, 9 Ogres and 12 Trolls in all game, not much of Shrek team
When i try to build heavy Dwarf team, there`s no Hamer for -15% leadership for Giants, if i want to go all dragon army, there`s no Hearth of dragon etc. 5th lvl`s are great units, but i just have bad luck with them

Never used Geyser ? What you do when there are 7+ stacks of enemy before you get Black hole/Death star.

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

OK how`s this as an idea for healing your Shrek team ?
Instead of BD take Shaman. He`ll almost always be enraged because of Thirst for glory and have Magic axes on disposal, casting totems to suport your mele team, and kill alott of enemy (they wont be able to attack them behind your mele Shrek team. For Mage -25% leadership will mean much to recruit them, and +50 HP will make them great substitute for Sacrifice (Sacrifice them for some of Shrek units, them spend adrenaline to remove +50 hP and revive them with Rune mages/or turn back time).
+ they will have nice morale thx to commander from Ogres.
This way no need for spending runes on Voice of Dragon. I know ppl like BD for -1 inititative to enemy, and burning, and all that . . . but in Shrek movie there isnt Dragon without Donkey - Shaman is Donkey (or next closest thing
Or kick Rune mages and go 3 mele, BD and Shaman (radical idea, but might be doable).
On side note, how does Blood shaman effect Chieftans 3 ability Earth blades ? It`s not explained how does it work ?
I`m not big fan of 5th lvl because i have bad luck with them, and availability in almost all my games, last time i wanted to got Shrek and got 0 Chieftans, 9 Ogres and 12 Trolls in all game, not much of Shrek team
When i try to build heavy Dwarf team, there`s no Hamer for -15% leadership for Giants, if i want to go all dragon army, there`s no Hearth of dragon etc. 5th lvl`s are great units, but i just have bad luck with them

Never used Geyser ? What you do when there are 7+ stackes of enemy before you get Black hole/Death star.

Shaman are ok, but not good enough. Sacrifice is horribly inefficient unless I have ghost armor and other astral resistance items. Shaman work best with... black dragons and other level 5s Since shaman can afford mass healing to all of them, but sadly not often enough.

However, shaman are too weak in a fight, whereas in the shrek team, most of the giants can hold their own and deal consistent damage since they are relatively hard to kill.

Shrek team does not work well with the Mage class, as counter-attack is vital and you need leadership for raw firepower.

My shrek team does not have voice of the dragon if I remember correctly. Black dragons act more like an interdictor instead of a real damager (even though ultimately they did the most damage by the end game because I got the giants later than the black dragon).

I mean, it already has a fairly easy time going through the game. I do agree, shaman are probably closest to the donkey.

To be honest, I could probably dump the orc chieftain, as he is borderline the least useful of the three giants. Although I believe he does give the Ogre morale boosts.

I think orc chieftain's special "hit everything around me" attack is pretty crappy even with blood shaman.

I usually just divide and conquer against large number of stacks of enemies. With the Shrek team in particular and counter attack, I am better off buffing my giants, letting at least one of them get into the fray so they can smash, and counter attack quite a few times. Or I de-buff the strongest enemy and smash him up.

It is pretty rare where all 7+ stacks are truly equally dangerous to everyone in the field.

Last time I used a Mage, I didn't have black hole or death star until after scrounger (stupid quasi speed runs) Probably could have used geyser, but I managed to do without.

I forgot how I beat Scrounger with the Shrek team Warrior class, but I would imagine it was fairly heavy reliance on phantom to revive my giants.

In my slower runs with the Mage, Scrounger was much easier with a buffed up Black Hole.