Bouncing needles

Originally Posted by Redroach

Okay, maybe you have turned off the head bounce thingy, where it may be not as obvious, but:

I happen to be a physicist (for real, it's not just a random claim ) and the thing is that the engine has its resonance frequency just like anything else. So, if you have tuned your engine badly, it will be go into resonance, causing it to shake and vibrate. And, because the engine represents a large mass, it will shake up the entire airplane with it. This, in turn, includes cockpit instruments and, since the the instrument needles are allowed to move relative freely, inertia causes them to bounce as well.

Now this is less obvious in more modern cockpits, as advances have been made in mounting the engine(s) with dampening elements. The engines are designed to run more vibration-free, too and cockpit instruments, if not already digital, have also been improved, "decoupling" them from airframe vibrations in better ways. It's shouldn't be like 1940 anymore

In reality, every turbulence has much stronger force effect than any engine and it is affecting whole plane and everything within it. Everything is shaking - pilots or passengers included.... In such cases the needles on instruments would be just "MAD" and completely useless which never ever happened in the whole flying history. Pilots heads is shaking more if going into the wild dive, whole plane is shaking like mad but pilots can still read the instruments. That's what they are trained for, read trembling(but not jumping) needle of instruments when their head is shaking like mad...

If it would only tremble (when starting, turning off, or dives on higher speeds) - OK... But right know it is just one of many little annoying "features" of this sim...

[bongodriver]

so I definately give more about them than about random internet "flight instructors".

I wonder who that is refering to......unnecessary personal attack

I happen to be a physicist (for real, it's not just a random claim )

why didn't I think of that......I forgot to say cross my heart

and the thing is that the engine has its resonance frequency just like anything else. So, if you have tuned your engine badly, it will be go into resonance, causing it to shake and vibrate. And, because the engine represents a large mass, it will shake up the entire airplane with it. This, in turn, includes cockpit instruments and, since the the instrument needles are allowed to move relative freely, inertia causes them to bounce as well.

I really don't agree, based purely on my 'claim' to be an actual pilot, not an effect I have heard of (until an eminent internet physicist said so), resonance on an airframe is a high frequency vibration, it doesn't cause needles to bounce as if you are driving a car off road.

[Redroach]

It wasn't directed against anyone, personally. I just happen to see more and more people reinforcing their claims with that.
But you're right, I should have left out my own statement about being a physicist, too. If I have to "scare away" people by claiming that I'm a "pro" on the matter (I'm not a 'pro' at all on these specific things, it's just general mechanics), I participate in the discussion in a wrong way.

[bongodriver]

I just realised that it might not have been me actually, I re read the entire thread....I guess I'm getting jumpy.....my bad.

in actual fact having re read the post I will withdraw my general statement on this, I think I am on a different wavelength...excuse the pun, of course instruments do bounce in turbulence and in severe engine rough running conditions, and to be honest I was concentrating on an exessive bounce with the RPM needle (this I do feel needs a tweaking)

[Redroach]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

I was concentrating on an exessive bounce with the RPM needle (this I do feel needs a tweaking)

hmm and I have to admit you're right about that. The rpm needle bounces more than, for example, the airspeed indicator, which is, at a first glance, not really obvious to me, too (maybe it's due to different springs in the instruments?!?).

So let's be friends again!

[JG52Krupi]

I love how people here are comparing modern light aircraft with a 1940s war time fighter built as quickly as possible to get to the front line I doubt you could even compare a flying spit to what they had back then. I.e. Regulations and limitations surviving ww2 aircraft have to meet.

[bongodriver]

I love how people here are comparing modern light aircraft with a 1940s war time fighter built as quickly as possible to get to the front line I doubt you could even compare a flying spit to what they had back then. I.e. Regulations and limitations surviving ww2 aircraft have to meet.

me personally am basing it on actual experience in the Tiger moth, Stearman and (despite being post war) percival prentice, in terms of instrumentation there are no regulations regarding the instruments for aircraft like the spit, these aircraft fly on 'permit to fly' which is the most basic airworthiness certification, even the tigers and Stearmans on public transport C of A don't have the need for modern instruments because they are certified for day VFR flight only.

Originally Posted by JG52Krupi

I love how people here are comparing modern light aircraft with a 1940s war time fighter built as quickly as possible to get to the front line I doubt you could even compare a flying spit to what they had back then. I.e. Regulations and limitations surviving ww2 aircraft have to meet.

So you say that British or German engineers were such morons and the quality was so bad, and pilots didn't care at all, that instruments are not working correctly, and it is just a accident that these types of instruments and technology is still in use even today?

If I can elaborate on your though - if it is so detailed "simulated" - every single rivet in a warplane should just fall off during second flight in this sim...