Why take completely unhistorical approch to vehicles?

[KnightFandragon]

Ive always wondered what are the effects of a tank shell once they penetrate armor? Not modern day ones but WWII shells like the 75mm of the Sherman. It is so low velocity that it couldnt penetrate the front of anything but can penetrate the side, what does it do to "knockout" the tank. Ive always imagined a Sherman round penetrating the side of a panther tank and since the shell is Low Velocity it goes through the armor but loses all velocity and is left resting on the floor of the Panther.....while the Crew is just laughing and killing the Sherrmy. Anywho, Does the explosion of the shell light up ammo or something? To me it seems an AP round going into a tank just makes a hole, its like why get out? The tank still works.....If it doesnt light up or explode why bail out of it? Ive always wondered why crews bail from a mostly perfectly fine tank.

[Jammermon]

The HVAP round tended to enter and ricochet around inside, the HEAP round tends to send a high temperature splatter around. Either injury was grevious. Even a standard non-HVAP was still chugging along at speeds above pistol ammo, but as big as your fist...

Arms legs, and sundry body parts missing, complete or near complete incineration, sometimes even just a bio jelly left in the tank bottom, all tended to result in a "Get out!" when hit...

And the Sherman "Easy Eight" with 76MM gun firing HVAP (500 meters/115MM Armor) had a chance of penetrating any German armor inside 250-300 yards... i
t's one of the reasons the Panzers avoided city fighting...

Jammer

Only a very few tanks had fire suppression in WW-II.

[Bobb4]

Originally Posted by KnightFandragon

Ive always wondered what are the effects of a tank shell once they penetrate armor? Not modern day ones but WWII shells like the 75mm of the Sherman. It is so low velocity that it couldnt penetrate the front of anything but can penetrate the side, what does it do to "knockout" the tank. Ive always imagined a Sherman round penetrating the side of a panther tank and since the shell is Low Velocity it goes through the armor but loses all velocity and is left resting on the floor of the Panther.....while the Crew is just laughing and killing the Sherrmy. Anywho, Does the explosion of the shell light up ammo or something? To me it seems an AP round going into a tank just makes a hole, its like why get out? The tank still works.....If it doesnt light up or explode why bail out of it? Ive always wondered why crews bail from a mostly perfectly fine tank.

A heat round normally has a tungstan tip which punches a hole through the armour. Behind the tungstan tip the shell is nomally filled with copper and this liquifies due to kinetic energy and sprays through the hole forming pinhead sized balls with harden as they enter the tank crew area.
These buzz around inside bouncing from wall to wall like millions of pin sized tennis balls.
The end result resembles mince meat crew.
A normal heat round hit does not leave room for a bail out of crew.
Oddly enough the thinner the armour the more likely there is for a through and through which means unless you are in the way of the round everyone lives.
The modern RPG works on the same principle it is just delivered via rocket rather than round.

[rossw]

Originally Posted by Jammermon

This idea of a tank sitting rock solid taking hit after hit imprevious to penetration is a gamers concept based on penetration THEORY.
Every tank had vulnerable spots; turrent rings, vision slits, traps under gun boss, flat surfaces... even a Jagdtiger was toast once it's tracks were damaged...

There was an episode of Tank Overhaul where they had a Ferdinand knocked out frontally by a 75 Sherman. The round had jammed in behind the front wheel and the crew had bailed out. Fairly sure that the first Tiger kill by the Western Allies was by a Churchill. Fired a round which stuck under the Tiger's turret jamming it completely

Originally Posted by KnightFandragon

Ive always wondered what are the effects of a tank shell once they penetrate armor? Not modern day ones but WWII shells like the 75mm of the Sherman. It is so low velocity that it couldnt penetrate the front of anything but can penetrate the side, what does it do to "knockout" the tank. Ive always imagined a Sherman round penetrating the side of a panther tank and since the shell is Low Velocity it goes through the armor but loses all velocity and is left resting on the floor of the Panther.....while the Crew is just laughing and killing the Sherrmy. Anywho, Does the explosion of the shell light up ammo or something? To me it seems an AP round going into a tank just makes a hole, its like why get out? The tank still works.....If it doesnt light up or explode why bail out of it? Ive always wondered why crews bail from a mostly perfectly fine tank.

A Sherman 75 could kill a Panther from the side at about a mile or more.

The shell breaking through the armour would be red hot, if it hits the fuel tank or ammunition the tank would explode. Also bits of the armour would break off and bounce around inside the tank (spalling).

The UK developed a round which it turned out was very good at causing spalling, and could kill without actually puncturing the armour. The HESH (High Explosive, Squash Head) was designed to break concrete in fortifications. The explosive tip of the shell would squash flat on impact so that when it went off a pressure wave passed through the material and blasted off the other side. On a tank this could kill crew or ignite fuel and ammunition. Still use them in the Challenger (HEAT doesn't work very well from a rifled gun)

[KnightFandragon]

So a Round jamming in the turret ring.........how does that put the tank totally out of action? Couldnt the crew then use the tank like a Stug? Just couldnt turn the turret....Im sure the round gets jammed in well enough only a visit to the shop would fix...which the Germans im sure were short on haha.

[rossw]

Originally Posted by KnightFandragon

So a Round jamming in the turret ring.........how does that put the tank totally out of action? Couldnt the crew then use the tank like a Stug? Just couldnt turn the turret....Im sure the round gets jammed in well enough only a visit to the shop would fix...which the Germans im sure were short on haha.

The StuG's gun can move around.

Tiger Turret linked because it is too big

The shot hit the underside of the gun, ricocheted and jammed in the turret ring. The Tiger then couldn't turn its turret. It would be impossible to fight in a tank which can't move its turret. How could you aim at a target a thousand yards away when the driver can't see where the gun it pointing? Why am I explaining this?

[ElenBlaster]

Guys maybe i have not so many ww2 knowledge as i can see, but i think if you want to play this game there should be SOME balance...i know, that post war tanks are not good, but they are fitting this game nice (for ex. it was almost impossible to see japs in vmow and now they are almost in every 2nd. game i see...thx to new balance...and they tanks are nice if you forget that they are only prototypes...same with pershing, black prince etc...) So if you can balance game this way, its the only option...but i think if you can balance this game realisticaly, there are faaar another ways that only armour - allies should get dive bombers or rocket planes (cuz game is set in late war...), commonwealt should get hurricane with rockets too, germans stuka without rockets (cuz germs planes got rockets lately and in less numbers) but with 20mm cannons, russians IL 2 sturmvik with rockets too and japs should get their 105mm at gun, maybe 105mm AA gun or 240mm howitzer (used before ww2 and during) or another strong arty (and they had plenty)...for example they dont need heavy tanks cuz they have HA-TO wich can be used by good players veeeeery good...(once i took out 5 tanks - 1 KT, 2VT and 2 panzers 4 before it got killed) ... and that planes should be for ex. for 500 MP or more and used only 1 or 2 times or be as hero units...something like that...and it should be easy to put them in MOD or patch, cuz they are already in skirmish or vmow - nothing difficult...and its more real to call some plane instead of chi-ri or black prince...any suggestions ??? (sorry for my english, still learning...)