The new bomb fuzing needs to be an option.

[swiss]

Originally Posted by JtD

So you are talking about skip bombing. This would mean a minimum arming time of about 1.6 seconds for the German bomb fuse Robtek and I are speaking about, as 0.8 was only allowed for dive bombing.

Please note that the US did not use German bomb fuses in their skip bombing attacks.

You asked about hull penetration, I offered the answer. The did penetrate.

Did I complain about fusing time when skipbombing? No.
You confuse me with someone else.
The 25m cap idiotic though.

Anyway:
Here are some fusing and delay times, you get everything from .7sec upwards.
Ignore the red oval.
http://img218.imageshack.us/i/40079461.jpg
Some offer a good chance to blow up the dropping plane too.

[Wolf_Rider]

perhaps a timely reminder...

Skip bombing was a low-level bombing technique refined for use against Imperial Japanese Navy warships and transports by Major William Benn of the 63rd Squadron, 43rd Bomb Group (Heavy), 5th Air Force, United States Army Air Forces in the Southwest Pacific Area Theater during World War II. General George Kenney has been credited with developing skip bombing.[1][2]

The first time skip bombing was used was at the base of Rabaul on New Britain. The United States 5th Army Air Force used B-25 bombers to attack and destroy Japanese ships. It proved to be very effective and received growing popularity. The only drawback was that it took a lot of skill to perfect. Sometimes the bombs would detonate too soon, or in some cases, sink.[3]

The bombing aircraft flew at very low altitudes (200–250 ft (61–76 m)) at speeds from 200–250 mph (320–400 km/h; 170–220 kn). They would release a "stick" of two to four bombs, usually 500 lb (230 kg) or 1,000 lb (450 kg) bombs equipped with four- to five-second time delay fuses at a distance of 60–300 ft (18–91 m) from the side of the target ship. The bombs would "skip" over the surface of the water in a manner similar to stone skipping and either bounce into the side of the ship and detonate, submerge and explode under the ship, or bounce over the target and explode as an air burst. All outcomes were found to be effective. Unlike "Upkeep" or "Highball", this technique used standard types.

[F19_Klunk]

interesting read about skip bombing in the pacific
http://www.kensmen.com/combatlessons.html

there is even a book (biographical)on skip bombing with a B17 in the Pacific available on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0275...33#reader-link

However, according to different sources, skipbombing was not only performed by the Americans in the Pacific, but also by British Coastal Command (learnt from the Americans) but also by Italians in Stukas?

Ju 87 in Italy
One of the weaknesses of the Italian Regia Aeronautica was its lack of dive bombers. The Italian attempts to develop such an aircraft had ended in a complete and ridiculous failure: The SM85 was abandoned after the type flew a single mission.
Yet it was clear that dive bombers were a very effective weapon against British ships in the Mediterranean. As was proven by the Germans when sent Stukageschwader I and II to the help the Italians. The Stukas badly damaged the carrier Illustrious, sank the cruiser Southampton, damaged several other ships, and nearly cut off the supply line to the besieged Tobruk.

So by 1941 the Italians received 46 B-1s, 50 B-2s, 59 R-2s. In 1943 they received an additional 46 aircraft, D-2s and D-3s. The Italians gave the aircraft the nickname Picchiatelli, which means "Striker". Although the Italians were trained initially to use the same tactics as the Germans, who did dive vertically on their targets in small groups, they soon developed their own methods. Rather oddly, the Italians also used the Ju 87 for the method which later became known as skip bombing -- horizontal attacks at very low level, dropping their bombs in such way that they would bounce of the water and hit the attacked ship on the waterline. The advantage of this method of attacking was that the target was hit on the waterline, and a dive directly into the defensive fire was avoided.

The last sentence seems a bit weird to me, as in the Pacific anyway it seems the survival rate was higher(?) with dive bombers dinving from above than in torpattack (coming in at sea level)?

[Romanator21]

Since a lot of us seem to be having great difficulty learning how to deal with the new bomb fusing, I've prepared these tracks which may help a bit by providing a "picture" that one should be seeing upon bomb release.

It's not always very easy, but then again, it wasn't easy to plant bombs in the pickle barrel IRL either. Still, I did these on the fly, so with a little practice anyone can do much better than what is shown here.

Hs-129 with 6x SC-50s (first pair destroy a plane, second and third go too far)
http://www.mediafire.com/?z67a2w2z5j1o91h

IAR-80 with SC-250 (some vehicles and armored car destroyed).
http://www.mediafire.com/?8092ef9536kw6y5

Il-2 with 6x FAB-100s (first and second pairs destroy planes, last pair gets an AA gun)
http://www.mediafire.com/?kepjoy81c7vki5c

Il-2 with AO-10s (several train cars are destroyed. Unfortunately, I accidentally kicked the rudder, preventing me from taking out the entire column).
http://www.mediafire.com/?ln5bka1b08gc412

Il-2 with 4x FAB-100s (dropped in salvo, a common practice. One pair is wide, second pair is on the money, killing a tank)
http://www.mediafire.com/?z1aos6spfs15e4s

Il-2 with PTAB-2.5s (2 tanks killed. If I dropped a split second sooner, I could have taken out the entire row).
http://www.mediafire.com/?tmxkoz9m93ex5ba

I can make more, by request

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

The bombing aircraft flew at very low altitudes (200–250 ft (61–76 m)) at speeds from 200–250 mph (320–400 km/h; 170–220 kn). They would release a "stick" of two to four bombs, usually 500 lb (230 kg) or 1,000 lb (450 kg) bombs equipped with four- to five-second time delay fuses at a distance of 60–300 ft (18–91 m) from the side of the target ship.

Hm... without the ability to calculate it correctly now... I think, this combination would make the bomb falling far over the the ship and miss it:

Height: 61m
Speed: 320km/h
Point of release distance from ship: 18m

Maybe in a dive, but not in level flight. Some information seems missing here to explain that.
Note, that I used the minimums height and speed of your numbers.

[F19_Klunk]

Caspar..if u read Kensmen's "combatlessons" there seem to be different techniques.
http://www.kensmen.com/combatlessons.html

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar

Hm... without the ability to calculate it correctly now... I think, this combination would make the bomb falling far over the the ship and miss it:

Height: 61m
Speed: 320km/h
Point of release distance from ship: 18m

Maybe in a dive, but not in level flight. Some information seems missing here to explain that.
Note, that I used the minimums height and speed of your numbers.

they are the similar number range you'll find anywhere, Casper.. and if you go back abit, you'll read that some sank, some hit the waterline and some did go over the ship.

water surface conditions, etc

[F19_Klunk]

About pics..

By the looks of it, skip bombing techniques were mostly used by B25 crew and B17. I have a cr*pload of different publications about WWII birds... I have yet to find any pic of a B17 skipbombing..but found quite a few B25's.

Take note that the "2nd plane" is a shadow... taken in Bismarck sea


Take note of altitude..bay of Hong Kong


Take not of altitude.. I would say considering the B25 has a wingspan of 20 m, this one is I would say 50-60m
Note thouh the text.. just because a B25 is low doesn't mean he is skipbombing. Front guns were quite heavy and could do a lot of damage.. and when u are strafing u need to go low

[JtD]

Originally Posted by swiss

You asked about hull penetration, I offered the answer. The did penetrate.

No, I asked about what hulls you're talking about if it is not ships, but moot point anyway. FYI, 500lb US bombs could penetrate about 40mm of mild steel max, that means they could basically penetrate all unarmoured ship hulls, but could easily go in on one side and out on the other against lighter targets, such as destroyers or merchant shipping.

The 25m cap idiotic though.

It's 2 seconds, not 25meters.

Here are some fusing and delay times, you get everything from .7sec upwards.
Ignore the red oval.
http://img218.imageshack.us/i/40079461.jpg

ElAZ 28 was not permitted for low level attacks. ElAZ 55 is back to the 1.6 seconds and 14 s delay for low level horizontal attacks, just like ElAZ 25B.

[JtD]

Thanks Klunk for the nice information. That was something I hadn't read or seen before.

Regarding the relative dangers of dive and skip bombing, I would say that this depends on the type of target. At any rate, neither would be comparable to torpedo bombers, which head to maintain a steady course at a low speed in perfect AAA altitude for an extended time.