Tactics for Cliffs of Dover.

[DKoor]

Originally Posted by csThor

It'll be what I've seen in virtually any flightsim I've played online ... clouds of dweebs upping from Hawkinge/Manston and Calais-Marck gangbanging it out at 500 feet in the middle of the Channel.

If you seek historical gameplay online be prepared to seek for like-minded folks with magnifying glasses. You won't find it on standard servers.

Quoted for truth.

I don't really get where the optimistic people in this regard find their optimism.

Heck, after all these years you'd think people would know better than to fly on arcade quake shoot em all servers.

Just to be sure those "realistic" quakes aren't any better either, instead of noobs they are just filled with snobs.

And unless something epic happens and 1C makes some realistic mod of playing somehow attractive, quakes will continue to rule.

[swiss]

Originally Posted by DKoor

Quoted for truth.

I don't really get where the optimistic people in this regard find their optimism.

Heck, after all these years you'd think people would know better than to fly on arcade quake shoot em all servers.

Just to be sure those "realistic" quakes aren't any better either, instead of noobs they are just filled with snobs.

And unless something epic happens and 1C makes some realistic mod of playing somehow attractive, quakes will continue to rule.

If those are FR servers like BoB - Great!

Seriously, I really don't have the nerve to climb for 20 minutes just to get shot down in 2 min battle.
(cruising around at 4-5k on BoB does give you an edge)

Flying around for an hour without single kill[but I survived -hurray] is not too attractive either, at least to me.
That's why I quit ADW.

After all it's a game*; I want fun, I want action and I want entertainment.

*Wiki says: A game is a structured activity, usually undertaken for enjoyment and sometimes used as an educational tool.


Edit: Haven't had read your 2nd post when I wrote mine, sorry.

Especially when repeated.

ROFL!

[Wutz]

Originally Posted by swiss

If those are FR servers like BoB - Great!

Seriously, I really don't have the nerve to climb for 20 minutes just to get shot down in 2 min battle.
(cruising around at 4-5k on BoB does give you an edge)

Flying around for an hour without single kill[but I survived -hurray] is not too attractive either, at least to me.
That's why I quit ADW.

Full real Server does not mean that there are no ding bats! I fly those servers too, and still you have on a lot of maps with great missions, halfway between both bases the usual gang bang of furballers who don´t give a hoot about anything except maybe landing some hits, not really caring if those hits are on friendly or enemy. I doubt very much that this will ever change reguadless what kind of sim ever reaches the market.

[swiss]

Originally Posted by Wutz

not really caring if those hits are on friendly or enemy.

Those pilots are usually rookies - and dearly hope this will never change.
If it does, it means we will run out of new pilots pretty soon.
(and I refuse to play offline)

[BadAim]

I still remember the days when you could get a good tactical battle going on Spits v 109's or ZvW and Warclouds too.

Don't forget guys, there will be smaller maps available for online play, and even user made ones later on for all the "Air-quaking" fun any human could have.

I think there will be plenty of fun to go around, no matter what the individual's taste.

I'm looking forward to some late nights this spring!

[Ltbear]

All war games about wars in the past have one main problem. We know what the did correct and we can figure out what they did wrong. Right there you have the reson why "historical" battles cant be made Historical.

You will have to tie someones dynamic game to a static game to do that. Will the German stay close and slow to the bombers?? Hell no, they know it was wrong to do, they wount be forced to do it.

Same problem with IL2 in the pacific. You have Japanese pilots, flying with tactics they shouldnt and they use radios...

Both sides have to accept that the Historical comes from the time and dates and the hardware, not from the what you will se on the servers. You cant park a game with a static result but trying to use a dynamic way to get the static result.

Historical is a scriptet way towards the endgame, making sure that the Historical facts are used to get to the correct ending..... How many do anyone think they can get to do that.....Blues want to beat reds, they will do anything they can to do that....they dont have "stupid" commanders to order them around....they know by history what they shouldnt do.....

LTbear

[csThor]

Precisely. This grade of historical accuracy can only be achieved offline when the AI allows it. But even the grade of historical accuracy that could be achieved online is virtually impossible outside of tight-knit groups of players with the same outlook, because the great majority of players can't look beyond their limited perspective of dogfight-this-dogfight-that and that gawd-awful ever-present sportive contest (and the pi**ing contest and chart-wars it brings along, not to mention the late-war monsterplane fixation). I'd love to fly a Stuka attack on Portsmouth harbor with its anchored destroyers if that made sense online. Unfortunately it doesn't. Worse - it's a waste of precious time and nerves. First you won't find enough people to man the Stukas, then you won't find enough people disciplined enough to be of actual use as fighter escort and then you'll only draw the score-whores on the other side who want easy prey just to demonstrate what heroes they are.

But then I may actually be a bit bitter. Who knows?

[swiss]

Fly at >4k, and you'll be fine.


Btw, why were the Stukas withdrawn?

[352ndBushpilot]

Hi csThor,

Well, the kind of attack you describe here are still being done. I know from personal experience (last night f.e.) that operations like this are still being executed in online campaigns. You need a good operating squad to do this, with equally trained opponents.

Good examples are the AKAFA campaigns and the Ghostskies campaigns.

But you won't find the them on regular online servers, unless you join them with your squad.

example: http://70.87.121.84:8082/campaign/Map_View.aspx

Only problem is the timezone...

cheers,

352ndBP

[BadAim]

Originally Posted by Ltbear

All war games about wars in the past have one main problem. We know what the did correct and we can figure out what they did wrong. Right there you have the reson why "historical" battles cant be made Historical.

You will have to tie someones dynamic game to a static game to do that. Will the German stay close and slow to the bombers?? Hell no, they know it was wrong to do, they wount be forced to do it.

Same problem with IL2 in the pacific. You have Japanese pilots, flying with tactics they shouldnt and they use radios...

Both sides have to accept that the Historical comes from the time and dates and the hardware, not from the what you will se on the servers. You cant park a game with a static result but trying to use a dynamic way to get the static result.

Historical is a scriptet way towards the endgame, making sure that the Historical facts are used to get to the correct ending..... How many do anyone think they can get to do that.....Blues want to beat reds, they will do anything they can to do that....they dont have "stupid" commanders to order them around....they know by history what they shouldnt do.....

LTbear

Exactly, Exactly. Isn't this what wargaming is about? To try to do the battle better? It's always a "what if" scenario, if not what's the point really?