Hs-129 Gunsight

[JG52Uther]

Well the document posted above seems to be irrefutable proof that the fusing is wrong,and the HS129 bombsight seems to back that up,perhaps now TD will reconsider for the sake of realism.

[robtek]

The data this document shows says:
o.V. (ohne Verzögerung -> without delay) 0,08 s. Wrong -> correct 0 s.
m.V. (mit Verzögerung -> with delay) 14 s. Wrong -> correct 0,08s.

the rest, look 2 posts further

While the minimum altitude is printed, the arming time isn't.
and even then, it's the ONLY proven indication, so far, that TD's generaliziced arming delay is off.

The art of reading only what suits one's agenda!

[SUP / Revan]

Originally Posted by JG52Uther

Well the document posted above seems to be irrefutable proof that the fusing is wrong,and the HS129 bombsight seems to back that up,perhaps now TD will reconsider for the sake of realism.

I could not agree more with the above statement, chaps, goddamn.

[Romanator21]

Thanks for the help with the documents Talonite.

I ran some tests, however, and the aiming guides don't seem to work as advertised

Dropping from 50 meters using the second indicator from the top works almost perfectly.

However, dropping from 100 meters, I had to use an area between the 3rd and 4th indicators.

From 100 meters, using the 3rd indicator led to the bombs falling short. The same occured at 200 using the 4th indicator.

All drops were done at almost exactly 300 kph, straight and level.

I don't know what the reason for the differences could be, but for now, I think I'll stick to dropping from 50-100 meters.

[ZaltysZ]

Originally Posted by Romanator21

Thanks for the help with the documents Talonite.

I ran some tests, however, and the aiming guides don't seem to work as advertised

Dropping from 50 meters using the second indicator from the top works almost perfectly.

However, dropping from 100 meters, I had to use an area between the 3rd and 4th indicators.

From 100 meters, using the 3rd indicator led to the bombs falling short. The same occured at 200 using the 4th indicator.

All drops were done at almost exactly 300 kph, straight and level.

I don't know what the reason for the differences could be, but for now, I think I'll stick to dropping from 50-100 meters.

Without 6DOF, all plates (maybe except 50m one) are misaligned with your line of sight. Although misalignment may look minor, it translates to not so small error.

[JtD]

For crying out loud, your "irrefutable proof" is a document which you do not understand? Man, educate yourself!

0.08s is fuse delay in the mode "m.V." - that's a delay you need for instance if you want a bomb to explode inside a house, behind armour or something like that.
14s is fuse delay in the mode "Vz" - that's a bomb delay that allows the plane to clear of the bomb before it explodes.
There's also the mode "o.V." - that's without any delay, instant action.

The arming times for the ELAZ 25B were
0.8-1.7s in the mode "Vz"
5.6-10.4s in the mode "m.V."
3.0-6.9s in the mode "o.V"
where the time range within each setting is due to the characteristics of the individual fuse, some being quicker to arm, some slower. If you do not give the bomb the maximum time to arm, you are risking duds, if you're not giving it the minimum time to arm, it will be a dud.

The minimum release altitude for the 25B fuse is also listed and given with 12m, that's for the "Vz" mode.

For those interested,
"o.V." - "ohne Verzögerung" - "without delay"
"m.V" - "mit Verzögerung" - "with delay"
"Vz" - "Verzug" - "delay" (but another word)

These settings could be chosen at the ZSK, the bomb arming apparatus installed in the aircraft, prior to dropping the bombs.

[SUP / Revan]

Man, educate yourself!

Et tut Uns leid, unsere Deutschekentnisse ist leider nicht genug, ein so fachspezifisches Dokument zu ubersetzen.

plus I got nothing but the cutposted above, still it's rather worth an official reconsideration about the minimal dropping heights

[JoeA]

Originally Posted by JG52Uther

Well the document posted above seems to be irrefutable proof that the fusing is wrong,and the HS129 bombsight seems to back that up,perhaps now TD will reconsider for the sake of realism.

No, it's not-the problem would be trying to implement something that had innumerable variations IRL.

[Romanator21]

We know with the 2 second fuse that the 10m option is a no go. But the others,
we can use bombsight table 2 to back into the required IAS. 280 kph seems to be the magic number for the rest. I haven't tested yet.

The problem is that I was dropping bombs short when going 300 kph.

EDIT: I see you've reached that conclusion too.

Just as a thought, you drop on targets, that are at true 0m ?

The targets were at sea level, yes.

That bottom angle is a little distorted with 2DOF, so you have to take that into account.

Yes. However each of those plates is pretty long, so the distortion is quite small. You can "correct" for it: If you press shift+F1, the lowest plate lines up perfectly, but is now off-center. Pause the game. You can see where it indicates on the terrain (a tree for instance). Going back to normal view you can see that the same tree/object is now just on top of the windscreen frame.

So, rather than dropping where the distorted 4th angle indicates, I've been dropping when the targets disappear under my nose.

Even so, the bombs fly far short.

I can hit targets at 100 meters only by dropping in an area between the 3rd and 4th indicators.

At 50 meters, the second indicator works perfectly.

[Celluloide]

Along the nice authentic manual of HS129, there is also a great book to read about HS129. It is 'HS129 Panzerjager!' by Martin Pegg published from Classic Publications.

In the Page 50, I found some useful information on the gunsight & vanes.

'This consisted of a Revi C12/C or C12/D sight, on the side of which was mounted a crude form of bombsight comprising four horizontal vanes with vertical wires passing through them. Release heights of 10, 50, 100 or 200m(33, 164, 328, 656 ft) were marked on the vanes and the pilot aimed his bombs by aligning the target with the particular vane appropriate for release altitude.'

That's all and there is no related picture or description with it. So it's a bit confusing. Which vane is for 10m? Is that top for 10m or the bottom one is for 10m? Well I don't know.