same stupid issue like in Mow ... PLEASE FIX : /

[firearms2k]

Originally Posted by Crni vuk

Penetration yes, here the 76mm could not beat it. But question is how much damage a 57mm can do compard to a 76mm which has a larger size. Penetration is penetration, and a 57 will very likely cause some damage after it enter the crew compartment. But it has a reason why the 57mm hanst seen any wide spreed use except for a few rare conversions and anti tank guns. The 76mm was many times prefered for its better qualities with high explosive shells which have been seen as more important then the penetration qualities which havnt been that bad either if you consider that most of the tanks in that time on the axis side have been made of Panzer IVs with short guns and the Panzer III which could be destroyed by either the KV1 or T34/76 rather easily. Only with the Panthers, Tigers and upguned versions of the Panzer IV this changed eventually leading to the decision to adopt the 85mm gun in to service for the SU85 (1943) and the T34 (1944). Particularly the Tiger 1 was it which forced here a change seeing as how it made the 76mm gun in the field obsolete so only the 85mm gun would have a chance of penetrating the Tiger 1 on usual combat ranges like 700 meters. Though of course only if the hit was straight to the front without any angle.
The 57mm was "good", but in reality it suffered from amunition of rather poor quality.

Just have to quote you quickly here, the 85MM gun can not penetrate a Tiger from that distance(700M). It's closer to 200-500 meters, frontally. Sides don't make too much of a difference there either, since they're still quite well protected. IS-2's were more effective, but the Germans still managed to take them on.


Otherwise, I find Hero Units just to be "free emergency units that unlock overtime." The way Germany currently plays, they need to get elite infantry to stand a chance against even the bare basic infantry of the US. So you're alocating a lot more points to infantry, and then you are pretty much hard-pressed for that Veteran Tiger. But what's the point in that, when the US still have their Special Unit points to get Jumbo 76's, and still have the remainder points to spend on their standard selection of tanks? Of course this is speaking to a standard game setting view, I really don't bother playing specific gamemodes.

[Crni vuk]

Originally Posted by firearms2k

Just have to quote you quickly here, the 85MM gun can not penetrate a Tiger from that distance(700M). It's closer to 200-500 meters, frontally. Sides don't make too much of a difference there either, since they're still quite well protected. IS-2's were more effective, but the Germans still managed to take them on.
.

Depends about the amunition we are talking about and its quality. Only with late 1944 would the Soviets really get their hands on reliable amunition in good quality ~ though neither mow or as really factor in the quality of it, situations like "shatter gab" or the rockwell hardness of shell casings for example which was some issue for a few guns.

And well to say that its not really clear at which point you will penetrate and when not most sources say that its "theoreticaly" possible for the Soviet 85mm to penetrate the front armor of the Tiger 1 from up to 800 meters. But I do question which quality the amunition had. Testing with the best conditions possible doesnt mean it will happen always that way (as how the allies realizied with testing the Panther in isigny where some had very good armor and would even hold out the 17pf and 76mm guns while panthers with average or not so well done armor would get penetrated). And its not like you get in the range of 800 meters and suddenly you will penetrate, sometimes you could be in 801 meters and have success. Other times maybe you need 750m (considering your gun and amunition had the optimum). Depending which angle, maybe even the temperature and preasure or how many shells you have already fired! Balistics and penetrations regardless if with tanks or small arms are a very complex topic from what I can read.

[Parkaboy]

Ok just to let those of you who don't know.

IT'S A GAME it is not supposed to be a scaled down real life version of the real world, because that wouldn't be a balanced game.

And this is an old thread and so really has nothing to do with the last patch.

ps Korsakov829 RE How can you possibly like it? Its just a mod for Men of War.

It's clear you don't know what you are talking about.

[Crni vuk]

and this is a free forum where people can share and discuss their oppinion. Instead of telling us the obvoius (that its a game) why not say a bit more then just that ? Or just ignore if it is a "old" thread already. I mean I dont have issues with people who disagree. But I dont see any point in your comment.